SPEAKER_01: 0:02

hey bookish baddies welcome to black girls lit where fine women fine literature and fine libations collide step into the lit life black girls lit starts now black women are so complex Hey, y'all. Welcome to Black Girls Lit Episode 3. I am Natasha. I'm Lex. I'm Star. And we are missing Nicole today, unfortunately. However, as always, big ups to our girl. We love Nicole. Cheers. All right. So for our BGL cocktail of the week, we will be having an espresso martini. Very popular right now. All the girls are having them. They say once you have one, you can't stop. The recipes for the espresso martini, we are doing cognac today as our alcohol to feature this month. So in the espresso martini, we have have the heine cognac with a little bit of cool espresso, Kahlua, and simple syrup. So cheers, ladies. Hopefully y'all like it. Clink, clink, clink. It is quite tasty. I actually like this better than with vodka. Yeah, the cognac is, that's tea. Much smoother. So if y'all want to know where all of these awesome BGL cocktails of the month recipes are, you can follow us on our social media accounts. We are on Instagram, Facebook, and also TikTok. Our Instagram handle is blackgirlslit1word underscore podcast. And Facebook is blackgirlslit1word podcast. Follow us. All right, now we social. So this week, we're going to be discussing the Nightingale by Kristen Hanna. Kristen is an award-winning author of over 20 novels. Her work often focuses on women and their central relationships, familial, romantic. Some of her most popular books are The Women, The Great Alone, and obviously the selection that we chose, The Nightingale. The Nightingale is a story that takes place during World War II and delves into the lives of two sisters. Kristen explores how each sister approaches war, love, and life differently. And boy, are they different. Okay. Of course, all the time, we got to start with our book ratings. As you know, we do cheers if we love it. Sip if it's okay. You know, we enjoyed it. Babysit if it was a struggle to get through, but you did get through it. And then send it back. If it was just like, just send it back. Like, please send it back. Now, I know it's going to be a shock to everybody. Not that she like everything. I know. And I do not want to be cliche, but I'm like, oh, this one I 100% give cheers to. I'm sorry. I've read several of her other books and I do. I'm a Kristen Hanna fan. And The Nightingale was all right with me. It's all cheers all day for me. Lex? You know, I think I'm going to agree with Tasha on this one. This one is a cheers for me too. It is a historical fiction. So it is my first historical fiction novel ever. And it was really, really well written. I think Kristen... was really detailed. She really wanted us to see things through her eyes during that time. It was a tearjerker. There was romance a little bit. There was conflict. It was just very, very, very beautifully written. Top two for me on the most beautifully written books I've read. So, cheers. I loved it. And then there's me. So clearly, clearly I'm the problem and that's okay. Definitely a babysit for me. I do agree. Let's very well written, very well written. And I'm going to leave that there. We'll get into here very, very shortly. Why it was a babysit for me. So, and with that, we'll go into our first pairing. So the first pairing that we have is a Pierre Ferrand Cognac, very popular in France. And we are pairing it today with coffee and butterscotch. Pair with the Pierre Ferrand. Oh, I thought it was either or. I didn't know. Either or. Any of the candies. Yeah. Any of the candies. All right. And so while we're doing that, the Pierre Ferrand Cognac is a rich fruit forward depth with baking spices. honeyed sweetness and aged wood elegance. What were the notes in this one? Was it supposed to be a sweeter one? If it was, I almost feel like I got the strong, like, it was a very, like the burn of the Kanye. And I don't know if it's because this isn't chilled. Y'all, we were, you know, usually you're supposed to have these chilled. But... I feel like I only tasted burn. I didn't actually taste the liquor. Pierre was coming in a little spicy for me. Yeah. Pierre was spicy. I'm going to say the thing is, like the cognac for me, it's a little bit stronger than what I was. I was thinking something like a little smoother. It just, it had a little heat to it for me. And I don't know that the butterscotch like brought anything out in it to make it, you know. Tone it down. Yeah. Yes. Normally our parents, you know, they... You know, you're like, oh, you can like taste something. I said, it just, I got all burned. It was definitely giving brown liquor burn. You know, I'm just. Yeah. And I concur with the butterscotch. It's the same burn. Very burny. Yeah. This one, I think, I feel like this will be a good one. Probably mixed. Mixed. Like the flavoring? It's a little too much to just drink it straight for me. Yeah. It's a burny one. Yeah. But it does taste good. It has a good taste, as far as the flavor of the toffee and the butterscotch. You can taste that sweetness under there, but it has a bite. The sweetness was sort of, I feel like it was a little bit hidden, like the love in this story. Where was the light in this story? Like the love in this story. The sweet of this cognac was much hidden in a similar way. Now... Do we disagree? No. So that takes us to our first question, right? Is it a love story or a war story? That was my first question to the group. And also the reason, the big reason for me babysitting. Because it was, yes, it was very well written. So much detail. Yeah. So much detail and time went into the development of the setting. The characters, even to some extent, to the point where I got lost in it. And I'm like, okay, well, is it a love story? Or is it a war story? What do you guys think? How do you feel about that? For me, there was no confusion. It was like all war story for me. Like, I... I mean, the love story was there, but the whole thing was focused on the war, the darkness of it, all of it. I was a little bit like, I thought they said it was a love story. Because that was very much just hidden for me. It was not very much at the forefront at all. And I completely disagree. I feel like it went on and on and on about the people. I didn't feel like we were really in wartime or talking about a war until almost the end for me. There were little things, but it just, for me, I just was, it was a lot of the relationships. So maybe not, the loving relationships, but it was just a lot for me in the relationships. Like it was a, it was a struggle. It was a struggle for me. And I will say this though, in all fairness, in all fairness, I'm going to date myself a little bit. I was expecting in my mind, I was comparing and somewhat expecting something similar to Anne Frank's diary. And it was not that. So I think that is where for me, it went a little long. in the character development and the setting and the garden and the thing. It did give Anne Frank to me. That whole thing was like, hey, this is... You have a war going on, but we're not on the front lines. We're talking about what's happening... To the people. Yeah. Who are not... To the civilians. That's what we're... I don't know. I think... I think one thing for y'all to know, when I say y'all, I mean our listeners. Hello, listeners. This book was about the Holocaust. So it was very, very dark, very, very traumatic. Like there was some in there that I was like, all right, I needed to put the book down and walk away to process. And so I found the portions where they did focus on The romance between Vianne, that's one of the sisters, and Gaetan. That was her love interest, right? Yes. No, no. It was Isabel and Gaetan. Isabel and Gaetan. I did find the moments where they allowed themselves to love each other a little bit of a remedy. to the heaviness of the book, it was nice. I liked that it kind of jumped back and forth because in those times where it was focusing on them and the little scraps of a relationship that they had, I was like, all right, at least we're not talking about concentration camps and mothers getting taken away from their kids, even if it's just for like a page or a page and a half. But I would definitely still characterize this as a war story overall 100 like i i don't know what else so i'm getting ganged up on and that's fine it's it's fine this is what they do so it's okay but but i did in in fairness i did start off by saying clearly i'm the problem and it was not it was a great book It just wasn't what I expected. Sometimes that's the thing. That's fair. So that was what threw me off a little bit. But very, very well written. Like the detail. And I felt like I was there. Like I could visualize it. And it's been a while since I've read a book that put me there mentally. So I do definitely give a nod to that. Yeah, for sure. The amount of detail. I mean, like Lacey was saying, like... Suddenly it was just heavy. And I don't know if it was like, I felt it even more because I definitely remember reading Anne Frank as a child. And I mean, that definitely moved me too. And I don't know if it's because, like I say, this just felt very much almost like of the times now, you know, with wars going on and stuff. It was a lot. And I was like, you can like visualize like what's happening to these people and like the slow, like unraveling of civilization. It was just... It was a lot. And that's why I was like, I didn't even know when they had time to fall in love because that just would not be where my mind's at. I'm like, we trying to survive. Love you. Kiss you. Like, what? I'm just trying to live. When was the last time we took a bath? What? Like, where's the... I cannot. And again, that is probably where it seemed like it was a lot for me. Like, it was a little too much love story for me because it was extremely... Unrealistic. And I know people cope, you know, when you're in traumatic situations, you figure out how to cope and have a certain level of realness or normalcy, right? But not that. Like, no. So, anyhoo. Okay, so for our next sip of cognac, you know, we were trying to make our way through this book, is... H behind... Actually, we did the HVSOP. You know, we are VSOP folks in Black Girls' Lits. Big money. And we're carrying that with a goat cheese and honey crostini. Now, the honey and the goat cheese are supposed to work alongside of the... The natural caramel and woody flavor in the cognac. Hopefully these go together a little bit better and do a little bit more for bringing out not only the creaminess of the cheese, but also the caramel flavor in the cognac is what the pairing is supposed to be. So let's see how that works out. How are we feeling about H by Hein? First of all, I will say I love goat cheese. Anybody that's never had it, you should absolutely try it. You know what? I almost feel like the cheese, this one doesn't burn like the last one. I don't know if it's just the alcohol or if it's the cheese, but it's definitely much more muted. I'm getting a little burn, not as much. The browns are going to be the browns, okay? The brown liquor is going to show up as a brown liquor every time, which is like typically... I read on New Brown, but sometimes, you know, when you read like this heavy stuff, you gotta, we gonna go dark, we gonna go dark liquor because it's a dark topic. But I will say, I do prefer, I like this, I like the H. It does not give as much burn. Now, maybe because Pierre done already muted all of my insides and so I can't taste my... Esophagus is scalding. Right. But the H is not giving the same burn in... Yeah, the goat cheese, Christina's, they giving everything they were supposed to give. I'm glad y'all like the goat. It's good. That was a cute pairing. Okay, so the sisters, without giving too much away, the sisters, they definitely approached the war and the situation very differently. They're two clearly different people. I mean, not only do they have a significant, they were like 10 years apart, you know, like one married, one single, but they approached it very differently. I'm team being straight up all day, every day. I know that she made some questionable choices. She did some questionable things. But being like a wife, a mom, and sort of like I said, just relating to her in a lot of ways. Somebody who got married young, who is able to depend a lot on their husband. I feel like I was able to relate to her more and I could understand a lot of the choices and decisions she made. So I do feel like I'm team Vianne. I just feel like Isabel, I understand things she did. I understand some of the stuff she did, but I also feel like she was mad reckless. She was. I'm torn because, true, Vianne, right? There's the mother in me. So I understand a lot of the choices she made thinking that she was doing the right thing to protect me. the children. In real life, I'm definitely team Isabel. Like in real life, sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in. And sometimes doing that looks reckless. But can you live with yourself if you don't? And I think for Isabel, that was her thing and who she was. She was really a rebel at heart, right? And that goes back to how the parts where they had to deal with their upbringing and that kind of, that process and how they dealt with that differently. The loss and then their father kind of not being there. Vianne had someone to go to and help her through that. And Isabel didn't. So I think that created that rebellious spirit in her. So... In her mind, it was, she had this fight in her that had to come out. It had to, because that's just, it's who she was, right? And she had to- She was never going to go along to get along. That part of her. There was no part of her that is go along to get along. There's nothing in her that would even allow that to be her. And I mean, in the beginning of the book, though, it also talks about Isabel very much being one of those girls who did not- She was not a fan of the whole going to school and learning to be like a good wife. And like she was kicked out of every academic institution she went to. Like she was not for that shit, like at all. I think to your point, Star, like, yeah, their upbringings, I think definitely played a role in how they viewed like what was going on at the time.

UNKNOWN: 17:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 17:46

And also, I think some of it is just personality. Some people, they're a little more meek, and they're a little more like, okay. And, okay, but let me try to, you know, soothe everybody, and let me please everybody. And then you have some people that just, they here for the rah-rah all day, every day. Like, what? Did she look at me? No, right? She look at you. Like, what? Yeah. I mean, you know. And I think, honestly, personally... for me that's probably why I can relate because there may be maybe or not may have been a time or not or not allegedly possibly I don't I'm just saying nobody knows but yeah there's somebody watching me now like I'm an example to someone now so I have to be a little bit more mindful of how I move and how I react to certain things but I'm not always the voice of reason I'll just... And that's okay. Yeah, like I'm not always the voice of reason. In certain relationships, in certain settings, I can be and definitely am. But there's two sides to every coin. But in the world, and every friend group needs all of them. We all need somebody that's going to be like, hey, be the voice of reason. And we also need somebody to be like, man, did you see us? You ain't see us? You ain't... I mean, are you going to come get our check or not? Like, what? Oh, she don't want to get paid today, y'all. Like, we all, we need, every, the world and every friend group needs all of the different characters to keep it moving. Like, especially, I mean, me, because I am, I do tend to be like a little bit more in the quiet side thing. You know, I'm like, oh, I'm chill. I appreciate all my rah-rah friends. I'm like, and I appreciate them making sure there ain't nobody out in the world messing with us when we out here in these ATL streets. Right. And the thing is, it can't be too many rah-rahs at the same time. There always has to be a balance. Really, you just need one. In any group, you only need one rah-rah. Everybody else has to be the voice of reason. So it's a real delicate balance, for sure. But yes, Isabelle, that's my girl. If I have to choose one or the other, I'm going to ride with Isabelle. But this is the thing. Don't you think, though, that... Because it was just her. I mean, not that, okay, you know. I mean, she does have family and stuff, but not having kids or even not being in a husband or whatever, there is like a certain level. You don't have to think about somebody else. When you are moving in the world, when you have to put your children... First, you do have to make decisions. It may not be a decision you want to make. I mean, we look at some of the things that Vian had to go through. Them definitely would not have been her first choice. But if it's me or my kid... But we don't know that I don't... In fact, she can draw a little more thugs to the game. Yes. There were opportunities for a little more thugs. I feel like there are some things that children or not, she would have made... Those choices, passive choices. Right. And I mean, I think also, I think what both of y'all are alluding to is at the end of the day, if we're just going to say it blank, Vienne had a lot more to lose than Isabel did. This is true. Because Isabel, I mean, for all intents and purposes, she was abandoned. And they talked about that at the book. They talked about how their dad was messed up by the war and wasn't there and how their mom had passed and how Vienne had just kind of left and got married at a very young age. And, you know, so she was abandoned. And so I think... that gives her the freedom to do a little more than Vianne could do. And I think that that's definitely worth something. However, I think I'm also leading a little bit more towards Isabel, but I don't want to invalidate Vianne's experience because I do think that she was in a very tough position of like, how do you still keep your... what's remaining of your children's innocence while also trying to keep them safe. And they're seeing crazy stuff outside. And so, like, what do you do to keep the home safe while also doing what you need to do outside? That makes all the sense in the world, and I agree with that. Here's my kind of final take on that in perspective. She thought that she was sheltering her daughter and protecting her from something and keeping her from something. But there's a point in the book where her daughter has to kind of let her know. I understand. I understand. I've been understanding. I see what's going on and kind of questioning and asking questions because she had been there the whole time. So she had been seeing all the things and experiencing them. And I think from that perspective real world perspective we can only shelter our children from so much there's a point where it's are we sheltering them or are we conditioning them to be okay with certain things and behaviors and treatments you see what I'm saying so that's where it was like well you thought or you made these decisions and choices to protect or shelter but in the end, you didn't shelter her. Because she saw it. She saw it all. Like, she saw it all. She had questions. And because there wasn't this open dialogue, there was the potential for some resentment. A hundred percent. Right? And she ended up having to, you know, they ended up having to kind of come to an understanding about the whys and different things. But... I'll leave that there. I won't get too deep into the things. Yeah, for sure. And I think the last thing I'll say about Vianne, because I did, I don't know about y'all, I definitely wanted to strangle her at the beginning, only because I really did think she was aloof. I think she, at the very beginning, I really do think that she should have listened to her sister Isabel a little bit more, because I feel like at that time when things were starting, it Isabelle was kind of at least trying to get her to prepare for what was happening. In Vienne, it almost seemed like she was like, just had blinders on and was like, nope, it's nowhere near us. We're good. I don't have to hide my jewelry. I don't have to get this bunker ready. I don't have to do any of this. And Isabelle is like, girl, do you not understand like, Hitler is at our back door. Like, he's coming for us. Like, he is coming for our friends. He's coming for our family. We need to protect ourselves. And that was one thing that I, like, stood heavy with Isabel with, because I still believe that if Vianne had listened to her at the beginning, it would have got bad. It would have got nasty. It would have got gnarly, because that's how that time was. But I do feel like they would have been a little more prepared for what was coming their way. Well, I would to say a thing about Vianne is, I don't even say that she was aloof. The thing is, she had always been taken care of. So when her father was no longer able to take care of her, then she met the husband, and the husband was taking care of her. And then she also had the best friend that was kind of like, hey, you know, she just always been taken care of. So what she was doing was like, I don't know, all I got to do is keep it together till my man come home. Now when my man, my man, my man come home, Oh, this is going to be okay. And I also think that no one anticipates how long war is going to be. So it's like, hey, let me just keep everything together for this little bit. He don't want to have to fight. He'll be back here. He'll be back home directly. And my grandparents, he'll be back home directly. Don't worry about it. And so there was no part of her that saw herself being in that situation, having to make decisions like this and all that stuff. For years, there was no way that she... it was just inconceivable. She could not even, there was no part of her that even, there was nothing. And I think that sometimes we don't realize one, how long wars can last. And also I said, what it means like to continue to like live in that. And then I was like, I think you don't realize like what sacrifices are going to have to make. And just like, you know, it just, it was very tough, but especially on someone who had never happened to really take care of themselves. Whereas Isabel, she's been out here taking care of herself from jump. She's like, oh. As soon as she realized that pops had checked out, sister really, she wasn't really going to be able to depend on her. Mom was gone. She was like, okay, well, let me, because I mean, even not even the school that she got kicked out of, it was one that she ran away from as a young child. She was like, she's a preteen. She's jumping on the to get back home. She was different. She was. Yeah, when she made that trek, the first one, the initial one, I said, oh, girl, I would have been like, I'm going to be right here. I'm just going to be right here. Whatever happens right here in this space, this is where I'm going to be. I can't... She was built different. I mean, and not for nothing. I mean, don't get me wrong, because again, I did say I'm TMVing, you know, but... definitely can appreciate the fact of the skill set and the the mind of isabel and can we talk about the way sis know how to play her good looks like the way she don't like because the thing she was able to do because she was like oh watch a cute girl get what she need done y'all hold on y'all hold my beard hold on cute girl gonna be cute out here get some work done don't worry about it so i definitely do admire her and i'm in in being I can relate more to being more like being, I definitely do look at people I know who are more Isabel. And I'm like, and I admire that. I think that, like my daughter, I definitely think my child is more, she a little more rebellious, a little more like pushing. I love it about her. I mean, of course, except for when it's directed at me, I'm like, okay. I love, I love that you're such a, you're just so strong and independent. But tone it down. Could you please just do what I tell you to do? Like what? Right.

UNKNOWN: 28:09

So,

SPEAKER_01: 28:10

But but for sure, for sure. So let me ask you a question and then sorry, we can we can move on to the next thing. So as far as your your co-hosts, if you had to be in or Isabel us, where would you put Nicole, Lex and myself? Oh, why? That's a good question. Because and the reason I'm asking you specifically is because. you're here. You're teetering a little. If I had to say, let me see, who is who? Okay, Star, you Isabel, because again, you thuggish. It is what it is. I feel like I would say Nicole is Isabel too. I think she's more independent, but I don't know if it's because she chooses to or because she's like, hey, I'm going to get shit done. I want to say that Lex is being, but She, but she also is like, I can't believe he didn't do that. I can see that only because... We're going to get off for just a second and I'm sorry. So y'all remember, y'all seen Barbershop. I think it's either one or two. It was when Cedric the Entertainer's character did a flashback to when he was like, it was like... I think it was like a rioting period and he was in the shop and all the Black rioters were like trying to get hyped up and they were like, yeah, we're going to do this. And Cedric was like, yeah. And then he's like, then we're going to kill some folks. And he was like, hold on. Right up in there. And yeah, because I think that's a fair assessment or like, That's a fair call to make. Because I do feel like there are some things, yes, I simply could not do without giving it away. They had girly locked in the freezer. I'm sorry. shoot me don't I can't don't torture me don't like that kind of stuff yeah but the idea of like a rebellion and being part of something bigger and doing what you can to support and getting the word out like I think activism looks differently and so that Isabel's form of activism would not be my form, but I do think something needed to be done. And I can relate to that part of Isabel. Like, we're not just going to let things go to shit just because this is what we're living in. Like, no, if I can do better, I'm going to see what I can do to help. That is true. You are very much, hey, we going to act right out here. I feel like we have some sense. She is. We're going to respect people. Definitely, I can definitely see that rebellious part of you. I don't know. Maybe I just feel like it, but it is more like, you know, a little more tame. Yeah. So I think it's fair. I think it's fair. You know, if I go back on it, I may actually say that Nicole might be being truthful. I'm saying like, I don't want to know because I see her, but that just may be the role that I see her in. But She is also super, like, caretaker, like, and softer. And, you know, I might have been all wrong. Not about you, though. You definitely. She said, but I do know. That's Isabella. I'm so, I mean, it's fine. It's okay. We are who we are. Now, I will say this, like I said before, in different settings, right? I am what the time and the situation calls for. So whoever I, whatever role I need to play is the role that I'm willing to and able to play. And in this particular dynamic, I'll be the robber. That's why. So speaking of roles that need to be played, We're going to get into this next question. But first, we're going to do our last pairing here really quick. So we are going to do Hennessy. Hennessy VSOP. VSOP. I mean, you know, it's the VSOP for me. We're not regular Hennessy. It has a very different taste. I was not aware I have been completely against Hennessy for some years. Until you got the VSOP? Until I tried the VSOP. It was just giving real stereotype and I was resistant to it, I think, for me. But now I've Yeah, I'm on it. It's a VSOP. So a little bit about the VSOP. This is a well-balanced cognac because we love everything balanced. Also, you're going to taste notes of dried fruit, a little bit of vanilla, oak spice, and a little bit of nuttiness. And today we are pairing the Hennessy VOP with ginger snap cookies.

UNKNOWN: 33:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 33:21

Love a good ginger snap. I'm not real big on ginger snap. I love ginger snap. It's very much giving grandmother to me. And I've I'm not with it. We're resistant to that. No, not grandmother. It's old age is what it's giving. And that's what I think I'm against. I'm against being old. It's so many things. It's so many things happening today. It's all right. We're doing our best, y'all. All right. Cling, cling to the Hennessy VSOP with the ginger. This is a very cozy pairing. It's warm. It's definitely giving, let's snuggle up by this fire and finish reading my Nightingale book while I sip on this Hennessy BSOP and eat my ginger snaps. I might even be reading a little story to my grandbabies. You know, I may all of a sudden be down with the ginger snaps at that point. I can see that. Yeah, so you should be getting, the ginger snaps should be bringing out the warm spices of the oak. in the Hennessy VSOP. I don't know what oak tastes like. However, this is good. I like it. And the VSOP, it's just not, the Hennessy is not giving the same. The only one that really gave burn was that Pierre. Pierre was, I do not know why Pierre come with the fire. This is good. I like this pairing. This is cute. I might actually like ginger snaps, too. I really didn't think I did, though, to be honest. I'm not a big ginger fan, though. I do love ginger. Love ginger. See? Uh-uh. I'm not. Beer, a ginger ale. I don't like ginger beer. No, I don't like any one of those. You don't like ginger ale? The cure-all of the black people? The cure-all? Like what? I drink it only when I have to. Ginger ale. Only when I have to. Don't make ginger ale. Only when I have to. I don't like a mule. I don't like a Moscow mule. I'm not into ginger. I'm really not. Learning so much about Tasha today, y'all. Okay, well, while we're snacking on our ginger snaps and sipping our Hennessy, we're going to talk a little bit about Beck. And to give you all some background on to who Beck is... Beck was a soldier that was assigned to live at VN's house during wartime. That was a common thing during that time. Soldiers would just come up and be like, hey, I live here now. And that is what happened with Beck. But the thing about Beck is he... I think he was trying to decide what role he wanted to play in this war. However, he happened to be a soldier, so he had to... he felt that he had to follow some of the orders that he was given. So just a little bit about Beck. So the question is, so Beck did not seem to agree with what was happening. And again, Beck was a German soldier. So even though he didn't agree, he did continue to follow orders, and those orders ranged from beating women and children to... getting lists, if you will, of people who should be gathered. So it's a very extreme side. What do you think our role is as humans when it comes to knowing what's right and what isn't right? Are we just going to follow orders, even though we know that's not necessarily something that aligns with our values? Or are we going to Or are we going to do what we feel is right? When do your values come into play? Like, how are we feeling about that when we're in hard situations? I feel like it's very difficult to just say, I mean, because the right answer is no, you're going to do what's right. Right. But when it's like, I think what happens is it comes down to, well... your family or my family. And then it starts to get like a little sketchier and you start to get scared. And I think you start moving a little bit differently, which is, I mean, that's unfortunate. That shouldn't be the way it is, but there you're going to have natural human instincts to, um, of protection. You know what I mean? So the answer is no, you definitely, you know, something is wrong. You better do what's right. You know, Hey, you can't, you can't be out here just watching somebody getting hauled away that, you know, had a bit, you know, getting haunted that you, and you don't step in and say something, but then, okay, well you, but then there's part of you that's like, well, I'm not going to be able to stop them. All that's going to end up happening is they're going to haul them away and me and mine away too. So what do I do? And that's an impossible situation. Right. And I thought that to me, that's what the whole book felt like. It's just a whole bunch of impossible choices. Like there was like, I don't even know at any point in the book, any of the choices that were presented, if there was anyone that was right or wrong, they were all like that. It was all like impossible. Like, okay, well, I guess it's the least wrong. Like, I don't know. Now, I will say, and I bet he pissed me off, because I'm just... At some point, you got to be like, okay, but... You got to stand up. And there was a lot of German soldiers that did not agree with what they were doing, but yet they did it. And you just kind of feel like, well, if all of y'all just be like, hey, if all of us don't follow one person, if all thousands of us be like, bro, you want one? Like, ah, you're tripping. Then maybe it wouldn't have had to been no years long of... World War. It could have been like, hey, y'all, we were going to put down our guns because we was like, nah, this some BS. I don't know. Like, they can't fire us all type thing. It's easier said than done, right? Because that's always the narrative. Time after time after time. From... the Holocaust and this war to the civil rights movement, to the NFL boycotts and things like that, right? It's always the one day target Amazon boycotts, whatever it is. It's always their strength in numbers. We know their strength in numbers, but who's gonna go first? And then who's gonna go second, right? Like, okay, y'all all gonna go for real? Like, okay, one, two, three. You know, there's that whole dynamic, right? of like, well, y'all said this is what we gonna do, but I really don't know y'all. So I really don't trust you to do the things, right? That we said we're gonna do. So then everybody ends up waiting for somebody else And it's like, well, I was waiting. Like, come on. Nothing. The hundred man versus gorilla. Ain't that the thing? Are we all looking like the Spider-Man? I can't even be overly involved with social media. So if I expand, I'm just like, I can't. But here's the other part too, that with Beck, there's Beck as the person, the man, the husband, the father. And we saw that. And he showed his compassion and he showed, you know, his human nature and his caring. But we have to remember he was a soldier. And that's the same thing when you think about what the armed forces is even today and what the military is today. Like you sign on the line. Like when you sign on that dotted line, your personal values and morals, like you sign up to be a soldier, right? That means you sign up to do what you're told to do when you're told to do it. Nobody, you don't sign that dotted line. Like you don't go and sit down with a recruiter and they say, so, hey, we know that you're interested in this and there's a lot of benefits. And if we ask you to do this, we're going to be okay if that doesn't align with your personal values and morals. You'll have the option to say, no, I don't agree with that. I don't want to do that. Like, That's not the nature of the military, the armed forces being a soldier. That's not what it is. You sign up and hopefully you're not in wartime, but if you are, guess what? Nobody's asking your opinion like, hey, so we're about to have to go clear out this town and round up these mothers and children because the men are gone. So there's no men because we've already sent them off. But we're about to go round up these women and children. You good with that? Or do you need to sit this one out? You know what I'm saying? It's not that. So unfortunately, I think for him... It was that and we got to see that duality that I signed up to do this. So this is the thing I have to do because if he didn't, then it was, oh, his life is on the line. But I got a wife and a child that I'm trying to make it back home to after this is all over as well. So if it's me or you, it's you.

UNKNOWN: 42:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:16

You see what I'm saying? And that's just... That's not so hard. But that's human nature. That's real. And war is harsh. There's nothing pretty and cute about war. That's why I was so irritated about the intertwining of the love story. Like, come on. I can't process that. I can't see that. But I do commend him for the moments where he was... because he didn't have to be. And that was, I think, in those moments where we got to see who he really was. And then the contradiction, of course, was when he got called to the carpet and it was like, oh, you might be a part of the problem. Like, how did this happen on your watch? Now everybody's coming down on him. He made compassion out the window. Right? Because now it's not a hypothetical now. Now we're down at the wire and it's either I produce this person or they're coming for me. So at that point, he wasn't trying to hear nothing. The end was saying he wasn't believing nothing. Like I air all this shit out. Like I'm clear all this out. Move that, move this, move that. Like, nah, you compassion over, right? Because now I can't choose you over me and the family that I have waiting for me. I don't think there's any real question. Like it sounds good and it's the right thing to say like, oh, I'm always going to do what's right because right is right and wrong is wrong. But really when it come down to it, that human nature to survive like kicks in and you never know what choice is. Right. And that's why I think that sometimes people, they just like, yo, we at war. I mean, I think that they don't understand exactly what that means, what they look like, especially if it's at your front door. If it's, hey, if your kids are going to school, your kid's trying to go to church, and ooh, mom's dropping to church. Your kid in the hospital because, hey, they got an infection. They got to have a tonsillectomy today. And people bombing the hospital. Like, you just, I think people don't really fully understand what that means. I'm just, that's what, I'm kind of like, I say that's this book, reading this book at this time, when there are actual wars going on, like around the world. So it just, it would just hit a little too hard for me just because it's like, for real, like you out here just trying like to live and life keeps going on. Like I said, kids, kids got to go to the hospital. Kid, you mean? And I, what do I take my kid to hospital? They got infection, but we know that hospitals getting bombed on a regular, like, what do you do? Like it's, Yeah. And it feels like at this point in the year of 2025, we should have a better way to solve our problems. Like, is we, is we really having war, y'all? Like, is we, we've not evolved? Like, that's kind of how I be feeling. And that's, I think a lot of this book I spent just thinking about current, I just kept drawing it to current times. And I feel like that's why I was just like so in it and just so like, oh my God, is we really like, y'all for real? There's no better way To solve problems. Well, it's a difference. And I already think I'm on the list. So I'm definitely not going to go too far down this rabbit hole. But look, from a historical fiction standpoint. Here we go. This particular war, right? That this story references. And other wars are about different things. So you have religious wars. And then you have this... I don't know what this particular war was about, right? There was someone that was in power and just got a lot of other individuals to believe in their belief system, right? And act out the things that this person was wishing. But present day, it tends to be more about resources than actual conflict.

UNKNOWN: 46:26

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01: 46:27

Or even, you know, ideology or anything like that. So I think there's something to be said about that. When you say, is this the only way that we have to solve our problems? I think we have to take a step back and look at what's the actual problem? Because sometimes in recent times, the actual problem is that we want what you have. And what do you mean? No, I can't have it. I think that's the root of all of us. Manifest destiny. Manifest destiny. I feel like I have the right to have what you have. And if you don't want it, guess what? I'll kill your whole family. Literally. So, it's a little bit different. I feel you. I'm so mind-blown by the inhumanity of humans. Because I still know how you could look at another... life and just treat them like they are not a child of God. And that may come from my naivete. You know, I'm right here. Like, you know, I be sitting there playing with my little rose tinted glasses. And so I'd be like, I'd be real baffled by human behavior sometimes. Like, but for sure, for real, like this. This is what we're doing? This is what we're doing? Yeah. Do bad humans exist? Yes. Yes. Bad humans exist. You're right. You're right. Yeah. So. Well, yeah, yeah. But y'all have got to read the book. Because we only, we only skimmed the surface. It is a must read for sure. And even, even with the Basie sitting, it is definitely a must read. It is a must-read. But I will say it's a one-time... Well, for me, it's a one-time read because I won't be picking that book up again. No, it was too much. It was too much. I won't be picking it up again. One was enough. One was enough. Okay. What I will pick up again is that Hennessy VSP. That might be in regular summer rotation, you know. I will pick the VSOP that Hennessy... We may be all right. I'm going to say my favorite pairing was the... hind with the goat cheese. That was mine. But was it the hind or was it the goat cheese that got you? It was probably the goat cheese that got me. Can't go wrong with that. Because you can't go wrong with it. And then the little honey drizzle on there. She made it look cute. If you guys could see the little plate, legs hooked up with like a crostini with a goat cheese, with like the little decorative little honey sprawled on it. You know, she did her thing. It looks very pleasing. Yes. So, sometimes, you know, we start eating with our eyes. So maybe that, you know, you look at It was like, oh yeah, this is it. But it's for smoothness factor, the BSOP. I mean, I can give or take the ginger snap cookies. I mean, I just, give me a little bit of the Hennessy BSOP. Put me a couple rocks in there with a little lime squeeze, you know. That's hilarious. Tosh gonna be all right. Yeah, I think we can do something with that, Pierre. We're just gonna have to mix it. Yeah, we're gonna have to tone it down. Pierre, we're gonna have to tone him down. Yeah. Bye. For sure. Well, as usual, we're going to leave you with our outro. And this week, we're going to do a quote from the book. And we're going to actually close with the narrator's opening statement. And that is, if I have learned anything in this long life of mine, it is, in love, we find out who we want to be. In war, we find out who we are. Cheers, ladies. Cheers. Until next time, ladies. Cling, cling, cling. And next time we'll be reviewing Wish You Had Told Me by Zeena Patel. So. See you around the book stalls. All right. Before we leave, though, I'm going to plug our social medias one more time. If you're not following us, follow us. Instagram, Black Girls Lit One Word underscore podcast. Facebook, Black Girls Lit One Word podcast. You will also find us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. If for no other reason than to get this espresso martini recipe because baby it's the winner for sure

SPEAKER_00: 51:01

thank you for listening to the black girls lit podcast join us for our next pour and our next page wish you had told me by zeena patel make sure to like subscribe comment and follow