SPEAKER_05: 0:08

Hey bookish baddies, welcome to Black Girls Lit.

SPEAKER_02: 0:15

Where fine women, fine literature, and fine libations collide. Step into the lit life. Black girls lit starts now.

SPEAKER_04: 0:26

Black women are so complex.

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Hey y'all! I'm Natasha. I'm Steph. I'm a star. And I'm a black. Welcome back to Black Girls Live Podcast. And for those of you who are new, you know, y'all know we're getting new listeners every month. We are a book review slash liquor tasting podcast. Think of it as your favorites book club with your homegirls, right? So, like I say, come for the book, but we stay for the conversation. Because the conversation, it'd be given what it's supposed to give. Today's book is set in Louisiana. So we're gonna be pairing this read with some rye whiskeys. Okay, let's go ahead and get lit, Lex.

SPEAKER_05: 1:09

All right, so y'all know my favorite segment of every episode is the BGL cocktail. Today we are having a sazorak cocktail. Apparently, it's like super popular in New Orleans. So we are getting the inside scoop on that. How we make this is we use some absinthe to kind of wash around in the glass to get a little bit of the essence. It smells like black licorice, so I'm assuming it kind of gives it that taste a little bit. And then we're doing a sugar cube, or we did simple syrup. We're gonna do a little bit of water and the bitters of your choice, aromatic, if you will, whatever you want, just a few dashes of that. And then, of course, the Zazerak rye whiskey that is featured in this episode. So that is that bottle there. Super popular in New Orleans, and then we're garnishing with lemon. So, ladies, cheers. Cheers try this cocktail. All right, Norlin. See what y'all talking about. See, let's see if Steph can bartend. She made the cocktail today.

SPEAKER_01: 2:20

Yeah, it's good. That's delicious.

SPEAKER_02: 2:22

It's strong, it's good, it's definitely strong. It's strong, but it's not as you say that the wash, the absent, that's the licorice.

SPEAKER_04: 2:31

It's very subtle though.

SPEAKER_02: 2:32

I don't know. It's it's giving black licorice, which is not my favorite. You did a great job on the cocktail step. I mean, no shade on that, but I just don't know. Like black licorice may not be my favorite.

SPEAKER_04: 2:42

Slide yours over here, though. Oh this is fine. And I like it. I like it.

SPEAKER_05: 2:48

It's strong, it's it's strong for me, but it's good. It is good. Okay. Some ice. We need some ice. Anyways, the book and the author.

SPEAKER_01: 2:57

Yes. The book that we are talking about today is The Butcher and the Wren. It's a psychological thriller told from the perspective of both the sadistic serial killer and the forensic pathologist determined to catch him. Set in the swamps of Louisiana, this novel dives deep into the dark mind of a killer and explores the emotional toll working a case like this has on Dr. Ren Mueller.

SPEAKER_04: 3:23

A little bit about the author, Elena Urkhart. Elena is an autopsy technician, turned best-selling author and co-host of the wildly popular Morbid Podcast. With degrees in criminal justice, psychology, and biology, she brings forensic precision and the love of the macabre to every page. Love me some morbid podcasts. Just saying. Oh, it's such a good podcast.

SPEAKER_05: 3:47

If you love true crime, that's the one to listen to.

SPEAKER_02: 3:50

All right, y'all. So this book, we gotta start off with our rating system. We know how it goes. Cheers if we love it. Sip. If it's good, but you know, not amazing. Think three stars. Babysit. If you got through it, but honestly, it was not your fave. You know, you one of the ones you could put down, pick back up, and then also send it back. You know what that means. I'm gonna just, you know, I like to start. It was a cheers for me. It was a cheers for me. Surprise. Y'all know I be loving some books. Okay, so I'm like I used to be mad because I always said cheers. I'm not even gonna explain myself. It was a cheers for me. We'll get into it. Lex.

SPEAKER_05: 4:28

Honestly, it was a cheers for me too. I loved this book. It had me terrified for many, many days. But yeah, she did her thing with the writing. It really took me there. It was so good. So cheers over here too.

SPEAKER_01: 4:43

I'm gonna go with Sip.

SPEAKER_05: 4:45

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01: 4:46

Overall, it's a good book. I'm just not a thriller person, I realize. I'd rather watch than read it. Yeah. To read it, it was a lot. So, but she's a good storyteller and writer, so I can't. She had me intrigued. So that's why I continue to turn the pages. But yeah, I'm gonna give it a sip.

SPEAKER_04: 5:10

Same for me. I'm gonna do sip as well. Not for the same reason. First of all, I love a good psychological thriller. Book, movie, anything like it's on jam. So this particular one's a little slow starting for me, and that's why I'm giving it away. What? Yeah. Yeah, the slow. Well, see, because this is my genre. Like, this is what I do. So I want the bodies. We know what we came for. Like, you know what the people came to see? So that's kind of for me, it was a little bit of a slow start and buildup, but great. Like the detail was great. My mama's CSI New York special victim state, like all she had all the elements there for sure. But it just got off to a little bit of a soft start. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_05: 5:59

Well, with that, we're gonna get into our drink and discussion portion of the pod. Our first pairing, ladies, is our fiddler weeded rye. And it is paired with some aged cheeses.

SPEAKER_01: 6:15

Cheers.

SPEAKER_05: 6:16

Cheers.

SPEAKER_01: 6:17

This is gonna be your jam today.

SPEAKER_05: 6:19

Clear my face. Yeah. Right now. So it's supposed to be spicy. I get the spice, spicy, but it also says it's supposed to be fruity. I taste no fruit. But if y'all taste it, let me know. Okay, well, let me try with the fruit. And so, yeah, we can try with the cheese. I taste a little fruit under the cheese.

SPEAKER_04: 6:40

Yeah, but very, very little. Very little. Tastes much more spice.

SPEAKER_02: 6:44

I don't mind the whiskey. I I will say I think the cheese helps cool down the spice because it was a little spicy. But I I feel like since we've been doing this for a little bit, I'm understanding that, you know, whiskey apparently is supposed to be spicy, maybe. Yeah, maybe. You're supposed to taste it, maybe. But okay.

SPEAKER_04: 7:00

I'm not mad at the I think whiskey is my jam.

SPEAKER_01: 7:04

Yeah. Whiskey is during time. You have it. You have a I think whiskey. Or gas make feelings with Scar loves her. Some whiskey.

SPEAKER_04: 7:14

I think whiskey for jam. Like what do I have next next to the bedside table? It's about a whiskey. And so she was the bottom. Everything else can stay downstairs. You see.

SPEAKER_05: 7:25

Whiskey makes me hot. Y'all hot? It was a little warm in here, but now I'm like, I'm not mad as a parent.

SPEAKER_03: 7:34

Now I'm not drinking with you.

SPEAKER_05: 7:38

All right, y'all ready for our first discussion questions? Let's jump dive into this book. Jeremy Rose. He was quite special. Quote unquote. Yes. Elena talked a lot about his parents and his upbringing. When it comes to scary people, serial killers, if you will, anything of the sort, or just interesting personalities in general, what do we think molds that? Is it nature? Is it nurture? Is it both? Is it about how you grew up? Or is it just you were born that way? What makes scary people scary?

SPEAKER_02: 8:18

It's a lot of nature. Cause I feel like some people, they just born like they they be on other levels. Like, so if you think about Jeremy, some of the stuff that he was doing, like, it's just not regular activities. You just, most people's minds don't really go there in terms of how you treat another human being. His parents, they were, you know, they had their issues. Definitely it is like some nurture. But I've also heard stories of people who had perfectly, you know, what you would call normal rate upbringings, and then still turn out to be just really horrible people. So I do like unfortunately think like just some people are born like on something different.

SPEAKER_01: 8:59

I would say it's a combination of both. I think with Jeremy, he had a lot of the nurture of it because of his parents and is really his dad and just the element. And so the nature was there. I think it was he was born that way, and it just all intrigued him. But having the accessibility around him the way that he did gave him more depth as in how he can get away with it. Where there are amateurs, like you said, that there are some people that it's just nature where they just know they have a thrill for it, but they don't have a plan. What is it, your Jeffrey Dahmer's, you know, you they don't really necessarily have a plan where they're caught up more quickly, where Jeremy had everything thought out and how to get away with it and how to make it either painful or painless, depending on what route he was taking. So he just had a lot of it where it was nature and nurture. So I think in this case, it was both for me.

SPEAKER_05: 9:57

If you don't know, I love I love a serial killer story. I love true crime, all about it. Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, everybody. I love I love it. I I'm a big fan. A lot of the time, especially Elena talks about it in their podcast, what makes a serial killer a serial killer or a murderer a murderer? And a lot of the times, like for some of them, they'll have this traumatic head injury. And then ever since they bonked their head, they've never been the same. But then sometimes you have people like Jeremy, where he he never bumped his head. He never, he was a pretty normal kid. I mean, his mom was like wicked religious, and that was a little toxic in the ways that she kind of taught him certain lessons. But it was, I don't know if y'all remember the scene in the book where his dad hit a deer. That was the most disturbing thing I've ever read in my life. Like I was uncomfortable, but he was intrigued by the pain. And that's what kind of, I guess, a light uh turned on in his head, like, hmm, pain. I like this idea. And so I don't know. I also think it's a mix, but also like you never know what thing is gonna be that thing for the person you're raising, like whether for good or for bad, which also is terrifying to think about.

SPEAKER_02: 11:20

But yeah, I think a bit of both. I don't know. And I will say, like, to take it away from serial killers and just like, you know, people in general. So in a former life, I was a teacher, and you know, and teaching middle school, you see like a lot of different personalities. And so I think about the kids that will come into class sometimes, you know, like you know, a couple that always stick out in your mind, they got like so much attitude, they're angry, and they and you're like, you're only 12, you're very mad to be 12 years old. You know, you talk with the counselors and stuff, you find out some of what they have going on at home and stuff, you're like, oh, well, I know why you're angry, the way that you're being raised, and you definitely are not being treated like the child that you are. So I understand why you are angry in my classroom. I understand why you have problems with all authority figures, or why you can't, why you can't stay awake, uh, you can't stay awake in class because you gotta be at home and you stayed up all night, you know, helping your dad work, or just you know, whatever. So I do think that, as if you take it outside of like, you know, like super crazy, like serial killer stuff, the things that people go through, like the way they're raised and what they see on a daily basis, definitely does. That nurture part, what you're seeing, what who is around you, things that are influencing you definitely is gonna have a greater impact on your personality and how you are moving through the world more so than just your biological makeup. What say you?

SPEAKER_04: 12:45

I agree. I agree that um I believe it's a combination of both as well. Some people are just going to be bad people. I think it's a matter of the trigger. Like, what's the thing, what's the time frame, what's the scenario that's going to trigger them or ignite what is innately in them. Like, I do believe that. So at some point or another. Because, like you said, it's we all go through challenges and different things.

SPEAKER_05: 13:18

The reaction is like that's the thing that I got you.

SPEAKER_04: 13:22

The thing.

SPEAKER_02: 13:22

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I agree. It's a combination. And also too, but that that's how I keep contradicting myself. Well, because I'm like, well, it's it's okay. I'm like, well, you know what, it's nurturing what you go through, but then where you have like, well, two people going through the exact same stuff in the same house. And some people they're going to overachieve, like, you know, in spite of. And then some people they're going to, like I said, they just they fall victim to it or whatever, you know, because of. So I guess, and some, I think that is like an internal thing. Like, hey, well, is this gonna be what is going to propel me up? Like, no, I'm never, I'm getting out of here and never coming back, or is this gonna be the excuse of what's dragging me down my whole life? So they're so the correct answer is this both. Okay. Both and both ends, for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 14:08

We're gonna go into the second pairing, which is the fiddler we have in the middle with a chocolate chip cookie. The fiddler is a rye whiskey that made right here in our city of Atlanta. One top of Atlanta. So you know, we are hoping this one is good. Bold black pepper and buttery butterscotch notes that make it a great companion to the chocolate chip cookies.

SPEAKER_05: 14:35

Now, somebody said they've never had a Chick-fil-a chocolate chip cookie. I'm about to pop your Chick-fil-A chocolate chip cookie cherry today. It's gonna change your life.

SPEAKER_02: 14:46

Say that one more time. I was about to say what you're about to mean. I don't even buy the whiskey, but I'm impressed that you were able to get that out.

SPEAKER_05: 14:54

Like, we're popping stars Chick-fil-A chocolate chip cookie cherry today. Okay. So, cheers. You're welcome. Because it's literally the best chocolate chip cookie ever. And when they're warm, oh my god. They're so good.

SPEAKER_02: 15:11

Okay, first of all, that whiskey by yourself is good. I do like that one.

SPEAKER_04: 15:16

But I'm like Tasha with the whiskey. Cheers. Cheers. It's a cheers.

SPEAKER_05: 15:22

Oh, that one is good. It tastes really good with the cookie, too.

SPEAKER_04: 15:25

This cookie, though, too. Fire.

SPEAKER_02: 15:27

This cookie is like okay, wait a minute though. It looks like it's almost an oatmeal raisin cookie, but and not for nothing. Isn't Chick-fil-A started in in Atlanta too? I think so. Is this the Atlanta Atlanta Perry right here? Look at the countdown right here.

SPEAKER_01: 15:42

Look at you putting two and two together.

SPEAKER_02: 15:44

Okay, let me tell you what. This I am not mad at this cookie or this whiskey or the combination.

SPEAKER_04: 15:49

Like when they get married, this the way Steph is over here quietly, like acting up.

SPEAKER_05: 16:01

I love a Chick-fil-A cookie. My lord. Whiskey is from here.

SPEAKER_02: 16:07

That whiskey is much smoother. It is. So now I can do whiskey with cheese, cookies, cookies.

SPEAKER_01: 16:14

They're so unlimited now. So let's keep going with the discussion. At one point, Jeremy was in someone's home while they were sleeping. He talked about how people are so vulnerable at this time because they feel truly safe in their space with doors locked. It sounded like a total nightmare. What is your worst nightmare scenario?

SPEAKER_02: 16:38

Oh, I got mine ready. I got mine ready, y'all. I also am a fan of the true crime. And let me tell you, the stories that get me the most are the ones where you have somebody and they've been like living like up in your attic or something. But like you don't know. And so here you are, all naked and singing your little songs, coming out the shower. You know, you in the shower, you singing, having the best time of your life, getting ready to go out with your homies. And then you step out wet, naked, very vulnerable, and somebody's right there in your bathroom. That is my worst scenario. Like terrifying. That right there, I cannot think of anything scarier. Me either. That's a wild ass scenario.

SPEAKER_05: 17:19

But it's happened. It has happened. And it does happen. It does. Continuously happening. Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 17:26

I think not for my house. It ain't that big. I don't think. I don't think I got to worry about them problems.

SPEAKER_05: 17:32

No. My fiance will tell you. Honestly, anyone who has come to my home, I lock that down. When it's time for bed, internal locks, external locks. Like I don't play about my safety. I lost it. Really? Then go back and jump again. And then I check under the I do a full sweep of the house. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01: 17:57

Listen, you never know. You're right. I mean, you never I mean, yeah, you're right. You're right.

SPEAKER_05: 18:02

You never know. It's a thing. It is. Yes. It is. You never know. Now, I don't know what I would do if like I actually found somebody. Do you do the check? But no, that that is that is terrifying. Or another one, I've heard of um people coming into folks' houses through doggy doors. I will never have a doggy door.

SPEAKER_02: 18:25

Never. I'm scared of the raccoons coming through the doggy door, so I'm never gonna have one.

SPEAKER_01: 18:30

Yeah, I I'll just take you out, dog. Like, I'm not gonna.

SPEAKER_02: 18:33

And pew.

SPEAKER_01: 18:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 18:34

Yeah, no, somebody coming into your home is crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 18:36

I mean, I that's like one of my biggest fears because whenever my husband has to go out of town, I love my kids, but I be locking my door, I be closing the door lock. Like, I just want to be in my own box. So sometimes it was, y'all just come in my room. Because I think that is the worst case scenario is being home. Like if you're out, if you're in your car, if you're things do happen, but when you're in your home, that's your safety net. And for somebody to intrude on that, it's like, where do you go from there? Mentally, physically, if something happens, emotionally. So him doing that, I was just like, oh my God, I'm checking everything. Like, are the windows locked upstairs? I know they lock downstairs, but it makes you go into a different mindset now because it's like, what is going on? I used to hear something in the wall. I was like, Jeff, what is that? We have a ghost. What is that? Like, because it was like, this is your home, and I need to know every noise. Like, okay, that's a, you know, the the wood needs to be leveled. Put a nail. But you know, I'm just sitting here and I hear something in the wall. Nah, what is that? Let's find out. So for me, I think that could be one of the worst cases, is like someone just being in your home. Like, you just never know. Like you said, you're singing, you're in the shower, you're minding your own business, thinking that you're alone and you're really not somebody's watching you. That's a scary thought.

SPEAKER_04: 19:55

I remember my car was broken into years ago when I was younger. They didn't vandalize it or anything like crazy. They just, it was at the time like when the pull-out radios were a popular thing. So I like have my little pull-out radio, and I have my my little box and a trunk with the speakers and all that.

SPEAKER_02: 20:13

She's aging herself.

SPEAKER_04: 20:15

It's all good. Like aging, like fine, fine. Don't play with it. Oh, sorry. But I remember how I felt about my car afterward. I felt like it just wasn't mine anymore. So I could only imagine that being your house. Right. We definitely gotta get a house away. We gotta move. Directional and then hope that the next space isn't. I can't necessarily say that I have given much thought to my worst nightmare scenario. I just try to stay out of those places. But I couldn't imagine it being the house. I know sometimes I'm not gonna go into a lot of detail because I don't need nobody trying to pull up the vulnerabilities and the weakness. Sometimes I'll be having to get on my son, like, hey, tighten up. Just tighten up.

SPEAKER_01: 21:02

Jeremy taught me I don't want to be tortured. Just take me out of my misery.

SPEAKER_05: 21:06

Take me out immediately. Yeah. And that is like you don't outkill myself.

SPEAKER_01: 21:11

I mean, he didn't get some stuff just just like to be tortured is crazy. I mean, the whole stabbing in the back. I was like, just I'm done. Just take me out. Take me out. Like you doing all, and then you had a sense of like yearning and longing for it. It was like, what?

SPEAKER_02: 21:30

He was sick.

SPEAKER_01: 21:31

He was. He was different.

SPEAKER_02: 21:33

But that like that's one thing I will say that I've heard, like say, you know, watching like different true crime stuff. They say that somebody who's willing to like break into somebody's home when they're when they're at home, somebody they like show like a different level like of unhingedness because they also don't know really what you have in your house. They don't know if you have like a gun or whatever. You know, they don't know what you have going on, but they're willing to take that risk. So it's like that shows that they are like at some different level. So he'd be like, oh, okay. So if you're willing just to pop in here knowing, no, we up in here, not knowing what we have, then nobody helps. So rule number one.

SPEAKER_05: 22:05

Exactly. And I think also the fact that he he broke into Ren's house. She sleep. He didn't, he didn't touch her, he didn't do anything to her. He was in her room, all in her face. He was in her home, but didn't do anything. I think that's also almost scarier because it's like she found out, I think, like a couple of days later, like later. And she was like, oh, this man was like in my room. Like in my room. Because the thing that he took, I knew exactly where because it's there every single day. He was right in my face. And I didn't even know. And I think that now I make my son. Now we leave a flower everywhere. See them in the footprint's in a flower. Like, is you is somebody in here? Because at that point, if you're in there, if you're just take me out now.

SPEAKER_04: 22:57

Now for take me out. Plus always unrealistic. Like you see, I've seen movies, you hear stories, and all that. But that to me is always so unrealistic. Like that scenario that someone can be in your space and you don't feel like I don't know about everybody. Uh-uh. I didn't jump in. I'm not a super deep sleeper, but you know what I'm saying? Like, I go to sleep, but I know what's supposed to, if it I don't even know how to make this make sense, but even in my sleep, I know what's supposed to be going on in my space. You know what I'm saying? Like on some level, there's still a consciousness there. So it's like if my son isn't home, there's no, nobody should be walking around. Nobody should, I shouldn't feel another presence. You see what I'm saying? So like it's one of the things you have to let me know. If you're out for the night, you better come up in here. And if you come up in here unexpectedly and I'm feeling a presence that when there shouldn't be one, that's problematic. Because I'm not, I'm not asking like questions.

SPEAKER_02: 24:11

Don't come for me, y'all. Don't come for me. I but I I do feel like I be heavy sleeping.

SPEAKER_04: 24:15

Like I but I'm But there's probably a level of there's a level of probably relax and safety and security that you have, right? Because out is now that is true.

SPEAKER_02: 24:27

You have to worry, y'all don't come for me because trust and believe I maybe sleep. You gotta come, yeah, I come back. Definitely have protective life. I that is true. I am able to relax and just in life and about my husband. I'm able to most most situations, I'm like super relaxed, just going through life flowing. You can turn your brain on. If my husband have to be on, he'd be in the he like meerkat. He be head on the swivel all the time because I'll be right here just like, oh, life is good.

SPEAKER_01: 24:55

When my husband is home, I'm chill. But when he's gone, I'm star. Like, what's going on? Every I'm listening, the kids, whatever the case may be. But when he's there, dead to the world. I'll be like, gone. Like, she's you know, like, yeah, that's you know, I yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 25:13

Thought about that. Yes, there is.

SPEAKER_01: 25:15

I experience it because whenever I go out of town, like now we're used to each other. We've been together for a long time, so we're used to that comfort of knowing we're there, and so when we're not, it's like you don't sleep as well. But even that, even when he's gone and I'm home, I don't sleep well because he was my safety. And it was like I'm the one. What if, what if somebody comes? Oh my God, Steph, you're gonna whoo, you know, it's like a different situation.

SPEAKER_02: 25:41

That is true. And I will say I never sleep really well at if I'm like traveling like at hotels by myself. I'm always, I mean, again, I got all the little locks on, the dead bowl, all the stuff, but I still never sleep fully. There's even somebody in the hallway, I'm like, whoa, what's happening? Like, so I there definitely is that comfortable comfort. All right, y'all, y'all ready to slide into this third? This we're gonna taste just the Ceserac whiskey without all of the cocktail mixes, and we'll mix it with gumbo. Did y'all know um our star, our real star, she she makes a gumbo. Oh, yeah. And when I tell you a gumbo, got a whole crab legs in it. Like, for why? Oh, because they're amazing. Okay. That's all we need to say. Okay. What other way is there? Well, you're the first person I that ever saw make it with a crab leg, but I appreciate it. Oh, okay. Yes. Imagine that. Yeah, never never stop doing that. She said don't ever smile. All right, so let me see what this is. Let me see if this says already is my jam. Like, let me eat. I haven't had a match. That's good. Okay. Now, sesame is a spicy and robust one with some notes of vanilla and clove in it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 26:52

Yeah, it's all of it.

SPEAKER_02: 26:54

Definitely a bold flavor, which is actually supposed to complement the boldness and the spiciness of the um of the gumbo. That's why they go good together. It's two bold flavors and they enhance each other.

SPEAKER_01: 27:05

The pairing is good. It's good.

SPEAKER_02: 27:07

And real quiet.

SPEAKER_05: 27:10

That's a good sign. I'm about to fill my bowl up again.

SPEAKER_02: 27:13

Okay. Because what what will happen is I'll be sitting right here sipping on whiskey eating gumbo all afternoon. For sure. Yes. And don't, and don't say nothing to me. Like, don't a word. Y'all put put put my shows on. Put my shows on. I got my gumbo on my whiskey. Don't say nothing to me. Like, don't worry about it. I'll be right here. Yeah, that's I like that. I do think that they compliment each other.

SPEAKER_01: 27:33

They do.

SPEAKER_04: 27:34

So I can start off with my little cheese and crackers and a little whiskey. Then I can have my little gumbo and have some more whiskey. Then I can rock it on up with a chocolate chip cookie. With some more whiskey, some more.

SPEAKER_02: 27:49

What I'm seeing from these pairings, Scar, is for real. You can do an appetizer, a dinner, and a dessert all with your whiskey. Three course, man. And every time, like every course is gonna give you a different flavor of your whiskey. And that is that is amazing. It's giving me what I need. Okay, y'all. Now look, let's let's jump into this our final discussion question here. Now, the book was written from two different perspectives. So we had we got to see what Crazy Jeremy was thinking, and you know, hearing his dialogue, but also Dr. Wren, what she was thinking. Do we like that style of writing? You know, like do you feel like it helps or hinders the mystery?

SPEAKER_05: 28:27

Okay, so I did an audio. So they did they had two separate voices. They had a male voice for Jeremy and a female voice for Wren. That helped it a lot. But I do think it showed like the range in Elena's writing because y'all, Jeremy was so twisted. Twist, like wicked twist to everything. Like he was severely disturbed. Severely disturbed. And so for her to go from like to get in that mindset to write some of the up stuff that he did, to then switch to Ren and her story. I thought that showed her range as an author. So I I really liked it.

SPEAKER_04: 29:11

Absolutely. I do.

SPEAKER_02: 29:12

And I like hearing from both perspectives. I do like that style, you know, and I know other writers do it as well where you get to see, oh well, one person thing, and also the same situation from the other person's point of view. So that actually is like my preferred writing style.

SPEAKER_05: 29:29

And I mean, they did that in our last book in uh The Legends or Orisha. Um, but I do think, sorry girl, but I do think that Elena did it better. I do.

SPEAKER_04: 29:41

She really took me there because the characters were so different, yeah. You know what I mean? Like the characters were so different. So to your point, that range to be able to go from regular, logical, positive, just getting up every day and doing your job, even though the job that you chose is a little kind of dark and hell. So like there's you know, there's a little alignment there, I think, in the perspective. But I appreciated the different perspectives, being able to have almost like a cliffhanger from one perspective, and then to pick right up on the other part, like where the other person is at in the same situation and scenario though, like and being able to like, oh, it was like I had a lot of glass at a lot of moments, and for me, for something to actually surprise me is a thing because I'm I'm writing the I get to a certain point in a movie or in a book, and I'm like, well, obviously we know what's gonna happen next. So when I have those moments, it's like oh snap, like I didn't see that coming. Love it for sure.

SPEAKER_01: 30:50

I think with him, I was just kind of intrigued with you were not a mama's boy, but she tried to make you a mama's boy, but then you had no empathy for anything because and you were more with your mom than you were your like you had moments with your dad, but I felt like he was more with his mom. So some of the way he acted about the repulsiveness when he was around a person, it's like he had no human attachment. Yeah. Because even with his coworker talking about the newspaper article, like what they were talking about, and to hear he was repulsed by those people too, like, let's get over it. Like he just had no compassion. That's what I got from seeing both sides, is with hers and his. It was just like, you like everything.

SPEAKER_02: 31:39

Like he was You're thinking of when you think of mom, you're thinking about your mom or you as a mom. Like, his mom was a little bit different. I will say, she was, but like perspective, though.

SPEAKER_01: 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05: 31:51

But then also I feel like he was homeschooling. I think so. But like you were saying, like, he also, spoiler alert, you could tell, like you said, that he was a mama's boy. So there is a point where like they went into his home and like nothing had like he almost memorialized his mother and his upbringing, but then to also know that like sis was toxic, like very toxic, and taught him like things that just weren't right, but then he still like had this reverence until the end of her.

SPEAKER_01: 32:27

Until the end. Yeah. Because the ending was I knew when I read it, like his mama gone. I said, but who did it?

SPEAKER_05: 32:35

The move, what happened to them? But then to still literally, literally memorialize her. And like nothing was touched, everything was as it was. It's strange. Mm-hmm. It's strange.

SPEAKER_02: 32:51

Y'all know Star be having all kinds of stuff for us, you know, whether it be like a little truth of there or whatever. Something.

SPEAKER_04: 32:58

Okay. So here we go. That's it. Here we go. You know the vibes. So the way we do our outro, we're we're gonna hit you with one of a few options, okay? A lit challenge, something that's gonna move you a little bit, top or thought to ground you, or a memorable quote from the book that kind of lingers like a good sip. This whiskey definitely lingered, okay? Okay. It's a linger. So tonight we're going full thriller mode with an on the spot lit challenge. Oh, good. So, co-host, this one's for you. It is a gut check. Okay. So, no overthinking. What's one thing about you that would make you the last woman standing and a psychological thriller? Brains, vibes, villain energy. Basically, tell me, tell the people what is your survival superpower? Ooh. Okay, you got not too much thought, right? Not too much. Okay, let me like you gotta know. Like, what's gonna make us the last woman stand? Yes, what's your survival superpower?

SPEAKER_02: 34:08

My superpower, I will say it's I'm everybody's friend. So I feel like I'm about to fuck my way to. She said, What's your name again? I'm finna talk my way into being like everybody's friend. Y'all mess y'all mess around all y'all did. And I done stood up just because I'm I'm everybody's friend. We, hey, we done boo, we d we don't like boohoo, we kiki, we all the emotions together. I do feel like that's me.

SPEAKER_05: 34:32

I still go kid.

SPEAKER_02: 34:33

Being able to be to be everybody's friend is gonna help me survive in the end. I don't know, but I will also say, I don't know if I have a whole lot of the survivor, because I really, I really am just like, hey, just take me out. I'm tired. I ain't got time. Fair.

SPEAKER_05: 34:51

I think I'm more on the brain side. I feel like no one would try me. Like, just with like the energy that I give off, like I'm just, you're not about to snatch me. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm not very approachable. I'm not very friendly. Not at least not on like first glance, but like once you get me talking, yeah. So I'm a nice cute girl, whatever. Yeah, you're the friendliest. Um probably but like I get that a lot. Like, oh, Lex, when I first met you, I thought you hated my guts. Exactly. Like, no one's going to try me. And so I feel like I like a serial killer would know not to approach me. However, if it does happen, just know. If no one finds me in 24 hours, I'm dead. Because I will kill myself before I'm before You're not gonna torture me for days. You're not about to torture me. You're not about to know. I'm so sorry. I'll do it myself. Yeah, I got it before I go through all of that. So give me 24 hours. My location is always on, like there'll always be clues. Breadcrumb trail. But if it goes cold in 24 hours, just know Lex is no longer with us because she knew better because she's not about to get tortured. But they wouldn't try me to begin with.

SPEAKER_02: 36:09

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 36:10

How do you top that? I mean, I feel like I'm not approachable either sometimes in certain settings, but Lex, you take it to another level. People may just be like, Steph, stop smile. I am on the inside. But for for me, I think I'm more of a physical person. So I think I would just try to run. In my head, I would get far away, but I don't know if I really would at this age. Yeah, it's a fighter. She is, she's gonna fight. Calm down. I'm gonna fight. I'm gonna try. And if it's my time, it's my time. Because I don't, I don't do the prolonging stuff. If you're gonna take me out, take me out. So I think I'ma fight. It's giving, come on. Yeah. Like I'ma run. I'ma run, but if you catch up, it's gonna be to the end. It's V or you. You're gonna get some. You might you might get some scratches too, but just so I I'm not going down like that.

SPEAKER_02: 37:05

So I'm a lover. Step as a fighter, and Lex is just like don't. I've never been. You ain't even gonna try me. I love it.

SPEAKER_04: 37:14

I I'm gonna say I agree with Lex, like, this ain't what you want. Like, please don't. Find us some. Listen, find something safe to do and somebody else to play with. But if you decide that this is what you want to do today, I feel like my superpower would be to be so nonchalant and like not even care. Like, I'm not gonna give you the satisfaction of whatever twisted ass scenario you have in your head that needs to play out for you to feel satisfied. Like you're gonna be mad. Like I'm the I'm the person that you're gonna get back. Like, she not cooperating. Like she not crying, she not begging for her lock cave. Like, she not doing cell. She not screaming or nothing. Like, she not doing nothing. I'm finna take her back. Cause this is not, this is not what I had in mind. I ain't got it for you. Like, do something then. If this is what you since this is what you chose to do, like, you're gonna have to show me. Cause I I don't have nothing for you. I done seen your face. Like, I know how this plays out, so be about it.

SPEAKER_02: 38:16

I will say, you do have a very good, like, poker face where you just it's just straight face. Oh, I'm probably crying right now. Not. I'm not doing that. And what?

SPEAKER_04: 38:25

And won't. Because what? Because why? Like, for what? Is it gonna change your mind? Like, you got a plan, right? Like, you had a plan, right? You you followed me, you stalked me, like you caught me slipping.

SPEAKER_01: 38:38

Like, what we After the stalking, I think he would have realized this is not the one for me to go for.

SPEAKER_04: 38:42

Like, go make it happen. It feels like just easier targets. Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 38:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 38:49

So, so that was good. And I I it aligns with, I think, who we who we are, like what we know our personality to be. So that's pretty cool. So for the listeners, we're not leaving you guys out. Like you guys have a challenge as well. And simply face a fear, small or strange, right? Something that's been haunting you, the corners of your mind, write it down, name it, own it. And ultimately, because there's power in bringing dark things into the light, talk about it, put it out there. So that's it for this episode of Black Girls Lip Podcast, where fine women, fine literature, and fine vibations always meet. As Tasha said. We close with a toast to the words that found you, the poor that holds you, and the version of you that showed up to listen. If it made you think, fill, or click, pour it forward. Make room for someone else at the table. Be sure to share us on all social media platforms. And until next time, cheers. Cheers.

SPEAKER_02: 39:49

Cheers. Cling, clean, clean.

SPEAKER_04: 39:50

Only stand up. Switch to absorb from cups. Okay. She has the red soap. Mine's empty, but you know, you get the vibes. Until next time. Next time.

SPEAKER_00: 40:03

Thank you for listening to the Black Girls Lip Podcast. Join us for our next pour and our next page, The Butcher's Game, by Elena Earnhardt. Make sure to like, subscribe, comment, and follow.