SPEAKER_03: 0:22

Step into the lit light.

SPEAKER_02: 0:23

Black girls lit star.

SPEAKER_01: 0:26

Black women are so complex.

SPEAKER_03: 0:28

Hey y'all. I'm Natasha. I'm Lex. I'm Steph. I'm Star. And welcome back to Black Girls Lit Podcast. And let me tell y'all, coming together with this book club really does feel like coming home to me, which is what we are doing today. We're going to be talking about coming home, going home, what is home, and all that good stuff here with our family. I'm going to forewarn you guys. This book, we got to get into it. And I'm going to tell you straight on alert. There's going to be some spoiler alerts. Now, we try to tiptoe around things in most of our reviews because we want to, you know, everybody may not have read the book. But there's some things that we have to get off our chest in this book. And if you haven't read the book, you may want to read it before. Or if you're okay with spoilers, that's cool too. So we do suggest you still read the book. Yeah, it's going to be some spoiler alerts because we have to get into it with this book. Let me let me control my frustrations. Okay. Let's go ahead and let's start off with our cocktail. Go ahead, Lex.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33

Today, our drink of choice is Jin. And we picked something strong intentionally because this book is a lot. But it is dedicated to Tasha's husband, Alvin. She has mentioned him several times on the podcast. So this one's for you, Alvin, the salty dog cocktail. So, ladies, we are Bombay Sapphire Gin, is what is in this cocktail, as well as some fresh grapefruit, some sea salt, and it is garnished with a wedge. We don't have wedges on our glasses, but just know if y'all want to make it cute, you can rim it, you can garnish it, do what you will with it. But it is grapefruit and gin. So cheers. Alright, ladies. Cheers to the salty dog. All right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24

Refreshing.

SPEAKER_02: 2:25

I love a grapefruit. Oh, it's it's chrome. It's bitter. But also, grapefruit is bitter and gin is bitter. So it's just a bitter cocktail.

SPEAKER_00: 2:34

But it's and we have a lot of bitterness within this look.

SPEAKER_02: 2:37

Bitter. Bitter. Need a stiff one. I rather, I rather like it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:45

It's giving me everything I need. It speaks the star. It speaks the star. So let's get into the book. Long after we are gone. It is about long after we are gone, it's four siblings returning home after their father's death to save their ancestral land, 200 acres known as the kingdom. But the real battle isn't just over property, it's over secrets, shame, and survival. Each sibling carries a burden, hidden love, rage and betrayal, and identity loss. The author is Tara Shelton Harris, a former librarian who now writes upmarket fiction with bittersweet endings. She's the author of One Summer in Savannah, and long after we are gone, she has received several honors for her books, including being named Target's Inaugural Author of the Year.

SPEAKER_03: 3:39

Oh wow. And I read One Summer in Savannah too, actually. It was um it was a good book too. All right, so let's go ahead. We're gonna start off with our ratings. How do we feel about the book? You know, just overall, we before we get into details of it, we'll go ahead and go through our are we cheers? Are we three stars on that sip? Two stars on a babysit, or are we sending it back with the one star? I'm gonna say What's Tasha gonna say? What is she gonna say? I'm gonna say sip. Oh no. I did like the book, but honestly, there was I was I was frustrated at some things. I mean, I did like the book. Maybe not I'm gonna say sip, okay. Maybe it's just because I can't all the time before everything can't be forced on. She tried so hard not to tear.

SPEAKER_02: 4:28

So here's the thing. Can y'all correct me if I'm wrong? Or maybe, hey, this is how I feel. I feel like this type of story has been done before many, many times. I don't know if any of y'all have seen Green Leaf. Yes. But this was Greenleaf in a book, basically. Like I feel like it was a bit more.

SPEAKER_00: 4:50

But Greenleaf had better character.

SPEAKER_02: 4:53

Yeah, but a little more development, but like the basically it was the same shit. Like it was giving, it was very Tyler Perry-esque. Yeah. It was given love and hip hop in Diggs, North Carolina. And so it's just like if you like that sort of thing, then this book would definitely be a cheer. Like it did not leave any, like the drama was there, the sex was there, everything was there. It was just very messy. Uh, but also I just feel like it was a redundant story. And so for that, I'm gonna give it a babysit. It was quite predictable, but then also very frustrating. I think I'm at a babysit for this one.

SPEAKER_00: 5:32

For me, I mean, it was a page turner because of the drama. So, because of the drama, I'm gonna go with sip because it was a continuation, like, I gotta know what's gonna happen. But I agree, it's it has been a story that's we we've read before. It's just a matter of what manner it is in and the development process of the characters, the stage, what era it was in. But I would have to say that it's a sip. It's not necessarily a cheers for me, but a sip, it was the drama kept me in where I kept reading just to see what was gonna happen. I had a moment of reading what the book was about and each character, and I was trying to guess myself of what drama that they had, and I felt like I was close, but I was far away too at the same time. So we'll see how we get into it with these questions.

SPEAKER_04: 6:20

I have to agree. It's in between, it's definitely not a cheers for me, but I am going to say it's in between a sip and a babysit. The babysit, because the same thing that you guys are saying. Like, then they're done that toxic, toxic, toxic, toxic. Got it. Check, check, check.

SPEAKER_05: 6:42

For sure.

SPEAKER_04: 6:43

But it's the movie or the series that has all the bad acting in it, but you're so invested in the storyline that you have to keep watching week after week, is what gives it the sip. Like, dog, I want to put this book down. But what they gonna do next, because it's so much drama. So that's where it's kind of in between for me. But more definitely sip, because I I had to. Once it got to that point, I was like, well, I have to see what's gonna happen now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 7:12

Exactly. You're absolutely sure.

SPEAKER_04: 7:14

But yeah, we're definitely gonna go on down through there. It was uh it was wild.

SPEAKER_00: 7:21

So let's get started, I guess, with the first pairing in question. Our first pairing, which is Bombay Sapphire Gin with raspberries and grapefruit and apples. So the fruit is an excellent pairing as it balances the juniper and citrus flavors in the gin. Let me know if y'all.

SPEAKER_02: 7:44

Yeah, we just we just gin it. We just the gin, y'all. The gin. And gin still make you thin. That's what they said. It's only appropriate, okay?

SPEAKER_03: 7:54

Not for nothing. I taste like the bag. I'm definitely getting like the juniper and stuff in the gin. Okay, but let me go ahead. Let me try it with some of these berries. Not for nothing. I almost like the gin by itself before I start eating it with the fruit.

SPEAKER_00: 8:06

No, I need the fruit.

SPEAKER_03: 8:07

Oh, do you?

SPEAKER_00: 8:10

I definitely need the fruit. Oh, I okay. What does that say about these? You're very telling.

SPEAKER_04: 8:17

Baby, gin tastes like alcohol. Yes. That's it.

SPEAKER_00: 8:21

That is it. You know, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_04: 8:22

That's ain't a lot coming from me because Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 8:25

Gin tastes like cologne to me personally.

SPEAKER_00: 8:29

The pairing is definitely a plus.

SPEAKER_01: 8:31

Yeah, I like it with this apple.

SPEAKER_02: 8:33

Yeah, the apple is.

SPEAKER_00: 8:36

The grapefruit actually gives it the fruit. It does for me. For me. Baby, gin is hard.

SPEAKER_03: 8:43

Gin is it is hard. They're for grown-ups. Gin ain't for everybody. No, the grapefruit the grapefruit does do a little something too.

SPEAKER_00: 8:52

All right. So let's discuss. How does the novel challenge or reinforce the ideas of homecoming and southern identity?

SPEAKER_03: 9:00

Okay. Well, I will say, so when I was reading it, it made me think of because my family does come from, my dad's family comes from Mississippi, you know, we actually do have land there and stuff. I think like out of like the seven siblings, you had five of them that as soon as they could, they were out. They're like, oh, we out of here. Now they definitely will come back home, you know, to visit the parents, but we're never going to reclaim Mississippi as a home. Because, you know, growing up when they did, you know, we know what Mississippi is. No, I'm I'm out of here. Never looked back and never had any plans to. And then I do have, you know, like two uncles who that is, I mean, you know, they went off to war and stuff, but then they definitely came home and Mississippi was home and that's where they live. So I do like, I kept thinking of it from like that point of view. And I think there are a lot of people who did grow up in a certain time in the South or have that sort of feeling. Either, I feel it's almost like either like they love it and they relate, hey, this is our home, this is where we belong, or they like, I'm out of here, like skip the South. I'm I'm getting on the first thing flying and I'm never coming back, sort of vibe. But I think there is just like a struggle. And but I do still think that they do feel like it's home, but can it be home? But you really don't want to go back to I think that's everything.

SPEAKER_00: 10:16

I think it's I think it's because of the generations, because like you said, back in the day, this is what we had. So we we embraced it as this is the family business. We have all of this acreage and we have to do stuff where now everything changes. It's not necessarily we have a family business, and the family is going to come and take care of it. Now people are moving on and up and out of life because we have so many opportunities and options in this day and age where they don't feel like they're restricted to just that life anymore. Where 50 years ago, 100 years ago, this is your life. When you were born, this is what you're gonna do. Where now we're kind of at a place where we have a lot more freedom to make decisions on what we actually want to do with ourselves in our future, where that decision already was made for us when we were born. You know, back then. I mean, their homecoming was a little different, like to make their father's casket and to bury them on the land. Like you hear of that. You do hear of that, but it's not as common as it was back then for me.

SPEAKER_02: 11:27

I just feel like this the whole book, I was just it was just very small town mentality. I grew up in Utah, but I definitely wouldn't say, like, yes, it was sheltered, but I feel like there's a difference between sheltered and like just small town mentality. At the end of the day, all these people were grown as hell. Grown. Grown. Why are we hiding? Why are we forcing ourselves to fit into these molds that we no longer fit into? Like, I just could not, I couldn't wrap my head around because of that small town. Because of that, like it was just like I feel like reading this, I was telling the girls, like, what time period was I was just gonna say that what time period are we in? Like, why are all of these things such a scandal? Like, like what's going on? I think it's the South though. And maybe that's what it is, and maybe as a West Coaster, I'm just gonna be around.

SPEAKER_03: 12:26

There is a lot of things that are that's it's the South. Like that's weird.

SPEAKER_00: 12:31

And you don't like we hold a certain way, and them being a small town, some of the things that they were doing is not acceptable, and you cannot show that, no matter where we are in life.

SPEAKER_02: 12:45

And even as it came to like the family, it was like we talk about some things, but that we sh we we don't talk, like we don't talk about.

SPEAKER_03: 12:54

There's parts of the South that I still don't are very much they like, they they're unapologetically 50 years behind. And they mean. It's just crazy too. But I feel like that's in when you're talking about the southern identity. I definitely feel like that is a southern thing. No offense to the South. I'm I'm I'm southern.

SPEAKER_02: 13:13

And sure, but it's like at what cost? Because for this book, it was to the detriment of the children. Oh, for sure. Like now everybody's up. Yeah. Because we didn't want to talk about who your mother was and who your father was and what their relationship was. And to me, it was just silly. Like a lot of this could have been avoided if y'all just talked about what happened in the home.

SPEAKER_04: 13:36

Yeah. You know? But I will say, like, I have the same, even now, like as we're sitting here, does anybody did the author say in the epilogue or the anything what year it was that we were in? Because I felt that way too. It was like while there were some modern themes, it was the language was killing me, the the southernness, the taboo, like, where are we? Because in 2025 reading this, like I did not have that reference and I absolutely needed it. But as far as challenging some of the ideas of the southern identity, there were definitely, I think, a mix of characters. That's kind of the thing. You had some of your characters that reinforced it for sure. Like that Southern, we don't talk about this, this is not acceptable. We do these things or we barter certain things, and everybody kind of knows, but we don't talk about it. You know, so I I feel like there was definitely some balance there where we got where we got a mix of characters that challenged that southern identity, and we got a mix, and we had the the other side of it, the characters that reinforced it. Like, no, this is what it is. Like Genesis was girl, please. Like completely reinforced.

SPEAKER_00: 15:03

Like, you it's just a faith.

SPEAKER_02: 15:05

Girl, just a faith was crazy. It's not a phase attitude from girls.

SPEAKER_03: 15:14

But that's a thing. I think that I'm telling you, there are in again, not for nothing. I'm very southern, loves, love the south. For me, I was like, oh, this could have been written yesterday. Like, I mean, when so there was no part of me that thought it was over this time period, it feels dated, this and that. Okay, maybe not 2025, but it could have been 2018. Like it would have been very, it sounds to me like it was written in recent times. Like it does not feel like, oh, this is it was date based in like 1950 something.

SPEAKER_02: 15:43

But the only pushback to that, and we'll get to it, but those letters. Yeah, it was a letter. I felt like I was reading fucking Huckleberry Finn. Yeah, the letters. It's their parents about to go. Like, what are we doing? Because that would have been their parents.

SPEAKER_03: 16:01

Their parents would have been in a southern what was this like Louisiana? Was this North Carolina? North Carolina. Same difference. Okay, if we are She said, oh, okay. If we're in the South in the 19th, because I'm thinking about, again, like I always refer back to my family, my dad and his siblings, my grandmother. Like I said, my granddaddy wasn't even, he didn't know how to read. So we're not saying we're not that far removed. Okay, and my parents were born in the 50s. They was like, my mom was born like in like 52 or 53, something like that. Let me stop putting her age out there. We family. I can't. So again, yeah, we really could not know.

SPEAKER_05: 16:39

No, we're not. No, we're not.

SPEAKER_02: 16:42

We're from because the other is what God does.

SPEAKER_03: 16:46

See, that that's why I'm like, hey, so yeah, that definitely could have been. These people were in 2018 because they don't sell phones like this. I do typically look at like the technology to try to, you know, date a book. But it was very telling of the time. And I'm like, no, all of that seemed real to me. And even like the mindsets of it, everything. And again, the South just feels it's the South, which is why I think that's that struggle of is home, this land that has so many bad memories, there was no growth there. It does feel like way back when I don't love that part of it, but there is this part of you that's like, well, it also sort of made me who I am. So I want to go back there. We do actually own this land. There's value in that land. Do we sell it? You have some siblings that are like, oh no, it they only see it as a dollar sign, and others see it as legacy heritage. But if your heritage is tied to pain, that's the battle. And I do feel like that is something that you see a lot of times in the South.

SPEAKER_00: 17:47

But I felt like some of the siblings could have taken it to another level, like, especially with Cece. Cece, like, you had the opportunity, you left. You left, and then you became a lawyer.

SPEAKER_02: 17:57

And for you chose not to help. That part. She knew her daddy was illiterate. Yeah. That part. She knew these folks did not know nothing about the legal document.

SPEAKER_04: 18:10

Then to simply be like, I don't have time. And then to have the audacity after that, to have the audacity for this to be your plan. Like, this is your out, like the audacity of you. Oh, like, oh, you're this this is the thing that's gonna save you after you didn't even have the time to read a letter to your father who does not know how to read. Yeah, absolutely not, sis. Oh, yeah. But she's trash.

SPEAKER_00: 18:34

Because I feel like the whole family could have taken it to another level. Like, I understand that you wanted to get away from it, but get away from it. But the thing is, like, how do we get better? I felt like they did a lot of disservice to themselves because they had a lot of opportunity to establish more, make more of that land, make it better. I understand that your father was the king. Correct, and he made decisions and all that. That I don't mind. So my thing is like, okay, dad, this is how you saw it, and that's how you did it. Let's elevate it. My thing is none of y'all elevated the situation. Right. Y'all let it continue to go down, and it was like you all got the education because you and you you went to college, you're a superintendent or a principal, whatever out of school. Toki, you're a teacher. I'll give Vance. Cece was a lawyer. Cece's a lawyer. Mance, you're the only one. Mance, you're the the carpenter of it all. You you learned something like that.

SPEAKER_04: 19:30

But there's so there's so much skill in that though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 19:35

So but the rest of them, Cece, you're a lawyer. You could have done the the paperwork of it all. And then between Junior and Toki, depending on what you guys were teaching or what you learned at school, you could have elevated the land. You could have done more with the land where James was like, they just lent it out to people so they could make some money off the land. They weren't utilizing it. But that my thing, like, I agree with James, they didn't utilize. Their land to the services that they could have gotten back from it. But what James was trying to do, I didn't agree with that. But but elevating it correct. Like, why didn't y'all do that? Y'all just is I gotta go. I gotta go. I gotta leave the kingdom. The kingdom is not for me. Simmittres.

SPEAKER_04: 20:17

Like, do you 200 acres? When they said that, and like, so I I kind of agree, but to an extent. So I'm gonna go back for a second. Talk about legacy. Because everybody has this thing with legacy. But don't we get to decide what that means, right? Like what legacy means to me might not mean what it meant to my dad. You know what I'm saying? 60 years ago. And that's okay. Like that's okay, right? Because if there's my thing was, and I could be wrong, but sell the land. If there's a corporation that's willing to, if they're willing to give you 2 million, like, then they're willing to give you 200 million. Like, run it. Yes, run it. We're gonna the two million pissed me off. Cause I'm like, it's first of all, it's 10 of them.

SPEAKER_02: 21:11

And it wasn't even two million.

SPEAKER_04: 21:12

And two million ain't enough.

SPEAKER_03: 21:14

20,000?

SPEAKER_00: 21:15

Yeah, like 20,000 were five acres.

SPEAKER_04: 21:17

So it was like when they offered, when he offered him that two million, that to me upset me because that's like a slap in the face, right? Like that's the ignorance is like, oh, you expect me to take two million acres. But there's 10 of us. So like that, even that two million ain't nothing. Correct. You know what I'm saying? And not saying I'm exaggerating. What was there? Four siblings? Four. Four siblings. There's a lot of them. So two million.

SPEAKER_03: 21:44

You bought one car. You ain't including a million. That's five million.

SPEAKER_04: 21:47

Like that ain't y'all not doing that with five, like with 500K for real.

SPEAKER_00: 21:51

And it's really not right because, yeah, with them uncle, you include the uncle.

SPEAKER_04: 21:55

So legacy for me is it's not this cookie cutter thing. It's not this one thing. And I think that was the part that frustrated me the most is that it almost made it seem like the only way to continue legacy or honor legacy was to continue to do just this. Just like in the same way. Right. Yes. Like not make it bigger or better, not do legacy could be opportunities.

SPEAKER_03: 22:28

What I did, what I built is gonna give you the opportunity to do something more. So whether it is develop this land and you put some condos on here for something, you do some little beach rental, whatever this, that, or whether it's you take that money and run and go build something else. Right. Go buy land somewhere else. Or doing something with what I built, created, started for you, that's the legacy. The legacy is the opportunity. Do something with it. If you wasted it, so y'all just sitting here, well, we're doing the same thing you did year after year after year. I do see how that's that's almost disrespectful to the legacy of what could have been.

SPEAKER_02: 23:06

Honestly, it was a slave mentality too. Because what got me was the when they were trying to go through the legality of like who owned the land and who inherited the land, they were going off of how it was passed. What do they call it?

SPEAKER_00: 23:21

The air and like there was no paperwork.

SPEAKER_02: 23:24

Yeah, and I was just like, yo, like it was just very upsetting and sad to see that it's like are we still in this? Because even the fact that when King passed, he didn't have a will. He was just going off of okay, so my family had the air proper, whatever the air property, air tax, whatever they were getting. It was like basically like passed down by word of mouth. And it's like basically what it was. Well, like we don't have like I get it, our ancestors did that because that's what we had to do. But we don't have to live like this. Because they had two lawyers, like Ellie was their lawyer, Cece was lawyer. Like, why y'all have a paper stress? Like this air quality, whatever, that's a real thing.

SPEAKER_03: 24:10

But that's a real thing. That's why a lot of people have end up losing family net. Because some some families did actually get their 40 acres in a mule, but they didn't know how to hold on to it because oh, we just oh well no that's so-and-so, and cousin Sissy and them, they got it, and they pass it in like and nobody knows for sure. No, there's no paperwork, so that somebody on the outside comes in with paperwork. All you gotta do is find one person.

SPEAKER_05: 24:34

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03: 24:34

One person signed. Yes. And then now somebody else got it. We're getting evicted. What do you mean, evicted? My family has lived here forever, and then now they're out. I mean, that's that's the truth of the matter, is that has happened an ungodly number of times. Because again, it's truly some people did get, there was several people that did get their 40 eggs in a mule, and it just it was ended up being stolen from them in various ways.

SPEAKER_02: 25:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 25:00

It's just upsetting. It's very upsetting.

SPEAKER_02: 25:05

So pairing two, we have the Empress 1908. It is a color. Yeah, loyal. Purple. Very cute. So we're pairing this with salami and goat cheese. And goat cheese is my favorite of the cheese. I know we love goat cheese. A goat. Yeah, I love a goat cheese.

SPEAKER_04: 25:23

It's still very much smelling like rubbing a call though, like a. Well, I mean, it's gin, but so yeah. Here's the thing, not for nothing. This is the gin that I like to use with my French 75.

SPEAKER_02: 25:36

Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. What kind of French 75? That's prosecco, gin, and pineapple or is it gin. Okay, yeah. It's like an elevated mimosa, if you want to film. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03: 25:48

I'll say so. We if we have some left over, we probably should sample that post-recording.

SPEAKER_04: 25:53

Yeah. There's definitely some simple syrup and some things in there. Yeah, we can make that happen. Some simple syrup, some lemon juice prosecco.

SPEAKER_02: 26:00

We'll report back to y'all on that one. Right. So, alright. So, our goat cheese and salami are excellent pairings with Empress, as the savory, fatty flavors of the salami complement the gin's botanical notes. While the creamy goat cheese balances the spirit's acidity, creating a sophisticated and satisfying combination. How are we feeling?

SPEAKER_03: 26:27

Okay, not for nothing. The Empress, like it did not burn. I was like, the way it's like, I was afraid, but just chasing it. I'm like, okay, Empress, I see you trying to come in smooth. Oh, the Empress is good. Yeah, me and my little goat cheese um charcuterie over here.

SPEAKER_02: 26:43

This pairing is definitely getting a good thing. You know, this is cute. Yeah, I like this a lot. The Empress is good, the goat cheese is good. Okay, so getting back into our discussion, as y'all know, we have a lot of very strong opinions about what's going on here. So, siblings had pretty much drifted apart in their adulthood. So, as we've talked about, once they all got grown, they said, All right, this is ridiculous. We're about to move, we're leaving, right? So, what do you think is the biggest contributing factor to the drifting amongst the siblings? So there's four of them. So, just to get our listeners, if you haven't read the book, we definitely recommend you read the book before listening to this full podcast. So stop now. Right. If you have not read it, I I advise you to stop and read and then come back to it. So, siblings, we have Cece. What's her full name, Sicily?

SPEAKER_04: 27:42

Sicily.

SPEAKER_02: 27:43

Uh, we have Junior, King Jr., we have uh uh Meritz, and then we have Toki. So those are the four, the four siblings. So, what do we feel like is the most the contruding factor to them leaving each other?

SPEAKER_00: 27:59

Not having they had too many secrets that they didn't share with each other.

SPEAKER_03: 28:02

Just secrets, so they like they must not be talking, like because or maybe it's just that oh, we just gonna check in. I thought they all did talk to their dad, but they loved King Downs. Right. They love their dad. When you have like if you're not talking regularly, it is very easy to keep secrets. And so you just oh checking in, oh hey, so how's dad doing? Hey, how's the weather? Oh, you oh hey, say hey to the nieces for me, and you don't have to have real conversations, so you're able to keep who you really are in your current life and everything like that. Like I said, all the secrets away from them, away from you know your siblings, and before you know, I mean you just oh, we don't even talk. Well, which is weird because I also felt like the two that worked in the same school weren't even close. Yeah, Joking and J. Like they also were like, I'm like, well, how I do think though that she knew his secret. She knew that he um that he was gay. Because Ethan Mance was like, oh yeah, that tracks. That tracks, yeah, right. But the fact that they just were not speaking to each other is like what allowed like the secret to be for them allowed to keep the secrecy and which just kept them drifting further and further apart. Because just like you have to, once you become adults, you have to go out of your way to have friendships. You also have to go out of your way to keep those sibling relationships. You know what I mean? You know, as you as you get older, and I mean it's effort. Maybe not go out of your way, per se.

SPEAKER_04: 29:29

But you have to put forth something. You gotta make some kind of effort. Yeah, there has to be some effort for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 29:34

It's a giveaway it's just like any relationship, friendship, platonic or romantic relationship. There's always an effort that needs to be made, even with your siblings, with your parents. Any relationship, you have to make an effort. And with them, I felt like their all of their secrets took away from them having a relationship because they all wanted something different. And they couldn't, I don't know why they couldn't communicate to each other. Like what was the big thing that kept them apart, which I couldn't understand.

SPEAKER_02: 30:00

It was the shame. It was the shame. Because even when, and we already gave y'all the spoiler alert, so we don't want to hear it on social media. Alex is like, listen. Um, because even when when CeCe ended up telling her truth to Toki, the fact that Toki was just like, oh, okay. Wait, what? Like, why was there all of this like buildup if your sibling was just gonna be like, oh, well, period. Okay, like that's fucked up that you embezzled all this money and you fucking this money. Whatever to save yourself, but like she she literally said, okay. There was no and that it was the shame of it all, and the fear of the shame that they would get because they were raised the way they were raised, and it was to hide, yeah, to not tell too much whatever happened in the household, how in the household. You better not tell nobody else what's going on in this house, what's going on with you. If you're down, if you're feeling depressed, don't say nothing. Because King lost his wife, the love of his life, and the fact that his kids didn't even know her name. So, right there is such a precedent of we don't show our emotion, we don't talk about our feelings. If you're going through some hardship, guess what? Here is not the place to talk about it. It all starts at home.

SPEAKER_04: 31:24

How did they not know their mama's name? I was so like way. I didn't understand that part either. I was like, well, is she not the mom? Like, did he kill her? Like, did she leave? Like, what happened? I I did not understand.

SPEAKER_03: 31:37

So if you are, like I said, so it I guess it is a shame. So, and if you are trying to keep secrets, you have to stop basically, you have to limit your conversations with people. Because if you have a secret, they don't at some point, as I say, if we're talking all the time, at some point it's gonna slip. So I definitely have to limit my communication with you if there's stuff that I'm trying to keep from you.

SPEAKER_00: 32:01

I think it's the generation too, like you said, the shame, but it's pride. The other biggest thing is pride. Like they don't want to show anything negative, they don't want to show anything bad. It's always they're very prideful, and then you have to hide the bad stuff and only show the good. And so I think that's another reason. Like, from what happened with King and Hazel, their relationship and what transpired in it, that once again, it's the pride, it's the shame. You know, you have to hide stuff, and now the kids are finding what if there were never letters? You would have never had answers. We would never know, you know. I'm not a writer, people. I'm not a writer. So my parents, my kids aren't gonna find their letters saying when mom dies, like I'm gonna tell him, though. I'm gonna tell him. I think we've been dying with me.

SPEAKER_04: 32:50

And I'll be airing it out. Like, no, I talk to my son a lot. Like, I don't tell him everything. Of course. But you know, like I think he needs to. I'm starting to give him a little bit of insight into me before I was your mother. Like, right before I was your mom, I was a person. Like, I had a whole life. Like, I understand I can relate because this is an experience I had. This is a conversation. And I love this. This is a, you know what I mean? Like, this is something that happened because I think there's value in that. So that when I do have to come at you hard or threaten to punch you in the throat, you understand.

SPEAKER_02: 33:26

Because I've done it.

SPEAKER_04: 33:27

It's because then they've done that. When I have to check you, like, hey, you're not running game because y'all not doing nothing new. Then they're gonna do that. Oh, I run the game. Like, you're yeah, like also that's so important. I can actually tell you how to do it and get away with it, because uh the fact that we're having a conversation. You're doing it all wrong. That's why we're even having the conversation. If you were doing it correctly, I wouldn't even know.

SPEAKER_02: 33:51

But I think that's super important. Like, I feel like I know, I feel like kids they put their parents on a pedestal, absolutely, and I think that was case in point in this book. Those kids love their daddy down. The king was the king in all parts of their life. They love their daddy down to the point where they could not even humanize him. Yes. And I think that and I that's why I like what you said, because it's important for obviously, like, once you're in that part where you can like talk to your kids for real about what's going on. But that's important to humanize yourself, to understand that, like, yeah, I'm your mom, but also your mama was this way, or your mama was out here doing this, or your daddy was, yes, we were we were also 22. We were 21. In fact, we were 18 years old. So we understand, and I think that that's what was missing. I feel like if the children in this book would have been able to humanize their father and humanize their mother, they could have coped better with what was going on because they held them as such high.

SPEAKER_00: 35:01

They just viewed them as pants and pants. Like supernatural superheroes. They couldn't do no wrong.

SPEAKER_04: 35:06

It's like, no. And that's important. It's very important. And I think like there was a time where when my son shared with me that there was a song we were listening to, and he was like, this, he was like, this is how I felt about you. Like, and I was like, what do you mean? So it was basically saying that, like, oh no, my mom, there's nothing that my mom can't do. Like, what do you mean? Like anything, like whatever it is, my mom is a superhero. I just gotta call my mama. Like, it's there's nothing. And I'm like, okay, and that's fair. For the most part, yeah, if I can, like, but it got to a point where he understood that I'm still just a person and there are limits on my superpowers as well, right? Like, and so it's I'm very intentional about sharing those human moments with him. Because, right, not only does it show that you are you're human and you're going through things and you're trying to deal with things, but it allows them to know that it's okay for them to be human as well. Because I think a lot of these kids, they they don't, especially now, with social media being what it is, and you like there's definitely a balance of like negative BS on social media now. But when everybody is just broadcasting the positive, the up, the up, and you don't see, like, you don't see when people are having their moments, you know, their quiet moments to themselves, or when they're struggling with their life decisions or all the things like people are not posting about that so much, like maybe a little bit, but it's not the majority of the content that's out there, right? But I'm out here making mom looking easy, like, oh y'all thought momin was and it's not bad. It's kind of like I'm sh I'm concerned right now. Like, he you've been at work all day, like you ain't checked, everything good, but you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_03: 37:02

Like, it's just a thing. And not for nothing, like, can we give a shout out to King for being like a single father who all his he's like all his kids was like, oh no, you know. It's almost like the fact, okay. I hate that they didn't hear some mom's name. It was something the fact that they missed. They didn't miss having a mom. I mean, I mean, they did in a way, I'm sure, but apparently King was doing his thing. Like they, they was, oh no, daddy had it. Like, we didn't miss nothing. We was out here, we learned some skills, we out here, we woodworking, we done went to college, we got degrees. He helping out other people, like, oh no, yeah. King was a king, y'all. Like, I don't, I don't know what y'all daddy doing, but my daddy had it.

SPEAKER_04: 37:43

Like, and it was it's so important to me. Like, anytime I'm here for, yes, black man, because it's so everyone wants to paint, you know, this picture of angry black man, and you know, there's there's all these negative things that are out there. I do appreciate that, and I respect that. And I like when we went and had the little author talking, I was like, I I respect and I appreciate you showing that black men do know how to love and they do know how to care, and they do have feelings, and they are people as well. I love that.

SPEAKER_03: 38:19

It was very good all the time is oh, black men, they they have babies, they make babies. They're not around and this and that, and and I mean, not for nothing. I don't know what nobody else is doing. Let me tell you, but Mr. Salty Dog, all of his children. You're not salty. All of his the way let me tell you that he, I mean, he for Amaya, who whoever she ended up being with, I mean, again, her father has set a very high bar. Yeah, expectations are very high. And for Dante and Devin, expectations are high for them because they're like, oh, this is what I got to live up to. They like, oh, okay. Which, hey, you see the example, immediate, you know?

SPEAKER_02: 38:55

But that's also why I wish King would have shown all sides of him. Because they would have respected. They already respected the hell out of that. Like nobody could talk bad about their dad to them. And that's beautiful. But I feel like if he was able to show how he was madly in love with their mom or how he was a gangster at times, like bopping I'm sorry, bopping people on the side of their head. Like, I feel like that's leather. It was very subtle, and that's I didn't know. And like, I feel like they would have like that is important, and I wish they would have been able to get that part of King from King rather than from the grave. Because the respect would have been even more so. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 39:44

And I understand that it's painful to discuss the past. Like, that's his love. That was the love of his life. Like, he walked her all the way from his arms from when she girl.

SPEAKER_04: 39:58

I was just like, what? That's what he did.

SPEAKER_05: 40:01

What now? Right. From the hospital. From the hospital? From the hospital bed.

SPEAKER_00: 40:09

So I feel like he showed a lot, and I felt I really wish that he would have shared that with his children. Because like, even with my kids, like I love their father. Like, I love me some Jeff. And, you know, my kids be like, they ain't another out there like that, mom. Like my son be like, I wish I could find what I have. I even had my neighbor, he's a 26-year-old that came, he's visiting from out of town. And, you know, we were talking, and I just brought up, oh, we're celebrating our anniversary. How many years, Miss Stephanie? And I tell him all this stuff. And he was just like, I was like, yeah, that's my boo. I said, they, that's my boo, Jeff. And he was just like, I want to love like yours, Miss Stephanie. He was like, they ain't nothing out there like that. I was like, really? And so it's like hearing people say that. And it's just like, I don't know, for me, when you see it and you have it, I grasp onto it. Like, I don't care if I'm I was young when I grasped onto mine, and I don't regret it. Where some people, it takes them a lifetime to find that. So with King, I'm gonna shout to the rooftop with a about my love for Jeff to my kids. So I wish King would have done that with Hazel because it was such a love there that it was it was, and then it's like I want I want to be able to share. Is it hurtful? It is hurtful. Like she died giving birth to my last child. Like, oh my God. But all that she gave me while she was here shared that part of her with them because you had it, they don't have it, and they don't have anything to go by. Right. And you want your children to remember the woman that you've remembered, right? The love that you gave her and what she gave to your family.

SPEAKER_04: 41:44

And even them seeing that side of him, like they didn't even see it. That he was that loving and he was that, you know what I mean? Like they didn't get to see that side of him. And I'd say again, right, black man, we love you, black man. Like, I that's important. It's important. Let me let me take a sidebar and shout, shout out to the way y'all love y'all black men. Like, but also the black dad. Me and my dad are locked in. Now, listen, before me and my dad, like growing up, we like definitely butted heads, but only because we were so much alike. Like, I miss my daddy, like I miss my daddy. Like, once I got older and we got to a place where I understood being a parent and what that means, him understanding and respecting me as a parent. Like, it was a common, it was that common ground that we, you know, we didn't have growing up because it was just, I'm the parent, you're the child. But once I had Chris, like it definitely got to a point where there was a mutual respect, like, oh, I get it. I get it because I'm a parent. And then he also, like, I know that you get it, and I respect that you get it because you're a parent now. And there's nothing that you won't do for that life that you brought into this world. I miss my daddy. Like, man, if he was here, like right now, like we would be having some good ass conversations because the way of the world today is insane. But anyway, I digress. I love how y'all love y'all black men. Like, I love that, I respect that, and it's super cool. Like, it's I don't know that love. I want to love like that too when I grow up. I wanna love like that when I grow up.

SPEAKER_03: 43:32

Like, it's super dope. Like, it's super dope. I 100% agree. Because I mean, seriously, like me and my dad, there definitely was, I was like, well, why just gotta be an A-hole? But then like once I had kids, I was like, oh, it wasn't you A, you was a parent. I think what you were daddy, these kids off the chair. We agree. So again, like my dad, he definitely my favorite person. Well, I mean, you know, him and Alvin, they they they about neck and neck, no. But for sure, definitely love Alvin. And I do think that it's important for my kids to see the good, the bad, and I mean they they see it also. Yeah, sometimes they see us snapping at each other, yeah. And sometimes, but then they'll see us also like we be snapping one minute and then be like, okay, but for real, like we been after dinner. Because, I mean, you know, we bounce right back, and they also see me sometimes. I'd be like saying like little nasty stuff, and they'd be like, Ew, hey, don't worry about what we got going on. You're here. Say it again, like say it again.

SPEAKER_04: 44:25

You think a stork dropped you off at the door? We was okay my man, my man, my man.

SPEAKER_03: 44:30

That part. That part don't worry about me that didn't do it here, you know? And again, I do. I try to show them all parts of it. Because I do, I want them to have a healthy relationship. And and know they mean, yeah. Love is love is beautiful, it's great, but sometimes it's hard. Like, yes, I've been married like, you know, almost 30 years, whatever, but every single one of them days was work. Like, some days more work than others. But every day I chose, I choose him every day. And what I mean, and sometimes it's this, some days it's great, and some days it's not so great, but every day we finna do it together.

SPEAKER_04: 45:05

I tell you, uh, where we ain't gonna do it as a part. So work it out. We got options. You need to go upstairs, I'll go downstairs. What you want to do? Like, I'll see you, I'll see you in the morning. You need an hour. You need a day, you need a couple hours, like what you need. Because I'm gonna be right here, and so are you. So, what are we talking about? Like, I love that. Yeah. Great start. Okay, so y'all know the vibes. Y'all know. Y'all know the vibes, y'all know the vibes. So we always save space for something to sit with, sip on, or carry into your week. A lit challenge to move you, a tougher thought to ground you, or a memorable quote from the book that lingers like a good sip. This time we're letting the author have the last word, and the quote close out is not all roots grow deep, some just twist around secrets. May we all unearth what no longer serves us. That's the top for thigh. Ooh, it's it is.

SPEAKER_03: 46:11

Somebody dressed, somebody's dreaming for it. Somebody drop all my shit. I don't have nothing to share with. I have something to share with. Stuff I got. I got some pastures around stuff.

SPEAKER_04: 46:21

So that's it for this episode of Black Girls Lip Podcast, where women, fine literature, and fine libations always meet. So the words that found you, the poor that held you, and the vision of you that showed up to listen. If it made you think, feel, or clink, pour it forward and make one for someone else at the table. We'll be back next time with Second Chance Christmas by Lori Nelson Spielman. A festive tale of forgiveness, family secrets. Lord Jesus. We can't break. Some more family secrets and the kind of love that can still find its way even under the weight of a few snowflakes and second thoughts. Until then, read boldly and sip slowly. See y'all in December.

SPEAKER_02: 47:06

Thank you for listening to Black Girls Lit Podcast. Join us for our next tour and our next page, Second Chance Christmas by Jack Quelljay. Make sure to like, subscribe, comment, and follow.